Verb or verbal?

[emsr2d2]

Wow. 4 pages in so I'm late to the party and loath to join in at all as I mostly teach "use of English", not convoluted grammar. However, I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone say that the infinitive is not a verb.

For me, the infinitive is the verb and everything else that stems from it is a form of that verb. I do recall someone on this forum saying that the bare infinitive should be deemed the main verb and then everything else stemming from it (including the infinitive) is a form of that verb. My view of it might be outdated but it stems from my English grammar education and from learning three foreign languages, in which the infinitive was always the form given first.

Feel free to kick me off this thread if I've misunderstood the point. I readily admit that my detailed knowledge probably isn't up to it.

 

[MikeNewYork]

We use the bare infinitive (base form) of a verb to name it. However, when an infinitive is used in a sentence it does not function as a verb; it functions as a noun or a modifier. That is where the confusion starts.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I am quite content with the definition and implications of using "verbal" to label gerunds, participles, and infinitives. Evidently you are not. I can live with that.

 

[MikeNewYork]

You are free to post anything that you like. And I will respond as needed. One cannot turn a verbal into a verb just because one wants it to be one. The system does not need to be that complex. The verbal, as a concept, has been around for many years. I am surprised that it seems to be a mystery to you. If I were to take the time to find the "serious" article that you asked for, you would simply turn the discussion into a battle of the "experts". You wrote "an infinitive can function as a subject, object or complement (as can a noun), but it still retains the verb characteristics I noted above." It is odd that a "verb" (as you call it) retains only some characteristics of a verb. That statement is self-contradictory.

 

[Tdol]

"You can't really say that finite forms are verbs but non-finite forms are not."

Of course I can.

You can, but will that help, say, a Chinese learner, who comes from a languages where verbs behave very differently from ours and don't do things like show tense or form? I think that arguing that an infinitive is not a verb, especially without saying it is a verbal will not lead to a greater understanding for many.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I usually say that it is a verbal. It seemed to be redundant in the discussion with Piscean. We both tend to repeat ourselves.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I am not here to satisfy you or answer your questions. I was here long before you were. I don't want or need your apology. You are just another guy on a forum.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Your opinion.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Your sarcasm is duly noted. It is not my fault that you cannot stand being disagreed with. Do you think you are really that special?

 

[MikeNewYork]

I have noted that you have had nothing to say about my posting from Purdue University. If you can't defeat it, you just ignore it.

 

[Tdol]

Can we calm things down, please. This is ad hominem. We should be able to disagree without this. Can't we have some respect here?

I am shutting this thread down as the heat/light ratio is out of kilter. Please keep it from spilling out.