[Grammar] Usage of "Just" with Present Perfect

[Franck87]

I am just off to watch some paint dry. Fascinating!

I thought purpose of this forum is getting some satisfactory and well constructed answers especially from the "teachers".
Just very short sentences as answers and unfortunately I don't see any constructiveness in the language used either.

 

[GoesStation]

Sorry guys you are all confusing...

"Have just wanted to.." phrase is being used any possible way. It has nothing to do with "stative" issue too.

Here is an interview from native English speaking singer, just ctr +f and search for the keywords:
https://www.gq.com/story/robin-thic...rating-with-2-chainz-and-kendrick-lamar-mercy
Another examples:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ruth-winder-ive-stopped-worrying-about-the-future/
https://blog.r3bl.me/en/chrome-vs-chromium/

I've just followed the links and I can see why this usage is confusing. The problem with the sentences in post #1 is that they end immediately after the direct object. On the linked pages the speakers continue the sentences in ways that justify the present perfect.

 

[teechar]

you are all confusing...

I thought purpose of this forum is getting some satisfactory and well-constructed answers especially from the "teachers".

Just very short sentences as answers and unfortunately I don't see any constructiveness in the language used either.

Those remarks are inappropriate and should be retracted. We are all volunteers here. That means we give up our valuable time to help others. Moreover, you were given excellent answers here and in your other threads that, in my opinion, adequately address your queries. I refer to my replies in your other thread below.

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...ct-tense-of-some-verbs-for-recent-past-events

If you'd read those carefully enough, you would have noticed my note that the present perfect can be used with stative verbs (e.g., "think" or "want") to indicate something that starts in the past and goes right up to (and possible including) the present. In fact, this usage applies to all the examples you cited in post #28.

If you want to go and ask linguists (as you put it), that's entirely up to you; but if you want to continue to participate here, we expect you to show appreciation towards our efforts. Remember: it costs nothing to be nice.

 

[Raymott]

Stative verbs (want, like, hate etc.) cannot be used with progressive tenses in English, this is the only rule.

That's good to know too!

 

[Phaedrus]

I thought purpose of this forum is getting some satisfactory and well-constructed answers especially from the "teachers".

That's outrageous.

 

[Franck87]

Those remarks are inappropriate and should be retracted. We are all volunteers here. That means we give up our valuable time to help others. Moreover, you were given excellent answers here and in your other threads that, in my opinion, adequately address your queries. I refer to my replies in your other thread below.

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...ct-tense-of-some-verbs-for-recent-past-events

If you'd read those carefully enough, you would have noticed my note that the present perfect can be used with stative verbs (e.g., "think" or "want") to indicate something that starts in the past and goes right up to (and possible including) the present. In fact, this usage applies to all the examples you cited in post #28.

If you want to go and ask linguists (as you put it), that's entirely up to you; but if you want to continue to participate here, we expect you to show appreciation towards our efforts. Remember: it costs nothing to be nice.

Teechar, I believe I asked a different context in this topic but I appreciate your answers all the time.
I don't think that I've made insulting comments. "Outrageous" is strong word for my recent comment.
Please read first replies given to me in this thread more carefully; they are all short and confusing answers without giving any input.
I think in this forum I have right to state my dissatisfaction?
Anyways, thanks all and have a nice day!

 

[teechar]

Teechar, I believe I asked about a different context in this topic, but I appreciate your answers all the time.

I don't think that I've made insulting comments. "Outrageous" is a strong word for my recent comment.
Please read first replies given to me in this thread more carefully; they are all short and confusing answers without giving any input.
I think in this forum I have a right to state my dissatisfaction, don't I?
Anyways, thanks all and have a nice day!

Of course you have a right to express your dissatisfaction with a post, but you need to be tactful and outline in a reasonable way why you may be dissatisfied with it. For example, there is a big difference between saying:

A- You are all confusing.
and
B- I find the answer in post #x confusing.

Also, I agree with Phaedrus's outrageous above. I find it insulting that you quoted "teachers" as if to call into question our formal qualifications and experience.

In any case, let's try to get this thread back on track and lead it to a meaningful and useful conclusion. Are you satisfied with the answer I gave as part of my response in my previous post? See below.

If you'd read those carefully enough, you would have noticed my note that the present perfect can be used with stative verbs (e.g., "think" or "want") to indicate something that starts in the past and goes right up to (and possible including) the present. In fact, this usage applies to all the examples you cited in post #28.

I should clarify that I meant to write "something of some duration" (i.e. not a short/quick action) in the above.

If you're still unsure/confused, post below but please be specific as to what you don't understand.

 

[Franck87]

Of course you have a right to express your dissatisfaction with a post, but you need to be tactful and outline in a reasonable way why you may be dissatisfied with it. For example, there is a big difference between saying:

A- You are all confusing.
and
B- I find the answer in post #x confusing.

Also, I agree with Phaedrus's outrageous above. I find it insulting that you quoted "teachers" as if to call into question our formal qualifications and experience.

In any case, let's try to get this thread back on track and lead it to a meaningful and useful conclusion. Are you satisfied with the answer I gave as part of my response in my previous post? See below.


I should clarify that I meant to write "something of some duration" (i.e. not a short/quick action) in the above.

If you're still unsure/confused, post below but please be specific as to what you don't understand.

Ok Teechar, one last try to wrap up.

Just also means very recently as time adverb:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/just

If I say " I have just wanted to help you" first thing comes to minds is "want to help" has been continuing for a while, as you've mentioned "something of some duration". In this context naturally "just" isn't immediately understood as time adverb but it is perceived more like "only".

Depending on the context, can't I use "just" as time adverb in the same meaning of very recently?
"I have just wanted to help you." Because previously I didn't think about helping or need for "want to help" has very recently appeared. So, this is still recent past situation/event if not action.

I see several hits on Google search that shows usage of stative verbs with time adverbs in present perfect condition referring recent past such as " I have recently hoped", "I have very recently fancied" , " I have lately/recently wanted"

Thanks

 

[Franck87]

No, as you have been told several times.

You linked us to some pages in which 'just', in the sense of 'only' was appropriate in 'I have just wanted to .... '. That was useful. I don't think you will be able to find an example of 'I have just wanted to ...' in which 'just' means 'very recently'.

Ok, Piscean let's then forget about "just".
However do you accept the time adverb "just" as the synonym of "recently" or "very recently"?
Then why there are examples of "have wanted to " with time adverbs like "recently" or "very recently"
Please take a look at this examples:

http://www.manrepeller.com/2017/03/is-walking-good-exercise.html (In the comments section there is a sentence " I've recently wanted to go jogging...)

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/24049135/I-want-to-learn-to-speak-in-french

"I've recently wanted to learn French..." (I can use the same sentence with using "just" instead of "recently" if I wanted to learn French within the last 15 minutes)

 

[teechar]

Okay/OK Teechar, let's give it one last try to wrap it up.

"Just" also means very recently as a time adverb:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/just

If I say "I have just wanted to help you", the first thing that comes to minds is "want to help" has been continuing for a while, as you've mentioned "something of some duration". In this context, [STRIKE]naturally[/STRIKE] "just" isn't naturally/immediately understood as a time adverb, but it is perceived more like "only".

Yes, and in fact, that's what it means in all three links you provided in post #28.

Depending on the context, can't I use "just" as a time adverb in the same meaning of very recently?
"I have just wanted to help you." because previously I didn't think about helping, or the need for "want to help" has very recently appeared. So, this is still a recent past situation/event if not an action.

No, and this is where the nature of the individual verb (stative/dynamic) comes in. "Want" cannot be used for short actions. Note that other verbs which are ordinarily classified as stative can work in such contexts. For example, Piscean pointed out above that "try" can work, as in "I've just tried to help you". Yes, "just" here denotes a short time ago. The difference here is that "tried" is not purely stative in that example; it connotes some kind of action/tangible effort on the part of the speaker. In contrast, "want" cannot work this way. I appreciate this may seem difficult/confusing for learners, so that's why it's important to take note of what is natural and what is not.

I see several hits on Google search that show usage of stative verbs with time adverbs in the present perfect [STRIKE]condition[/STRIKE] referring recent past such as "I have recently hoped", "I have very recently fancied", " I have lately/recently wanted."

These are not complete sentences, so I cannot really comment. See above.

Thanks.

You're welcome.

 

[Franck87]

That would be most unnatural.

This Ngram shows how rare it is for 'recently 'to be used with 'have/has wanted'.

Piscean, thanks for your efforts to explain this issue to me.
It might sound unnatural to you I understand but I believe it is still used significantly.
I see on Google search that there are quite a lot examples of usage of "recently" with "have/has wanted to" even by native English speakers.
My conclusion is, to avoid "for a while and long past" meaning confusion of "just" usage, time adverbs like "recently","lately" or "very recently" are preferred instead to stress recent past.

Thanks again and have a nice day!

 

[Franck87]

No, and this is where the nature of the individual verb (stative/dynamic) comes in. "Want" cannot be used for short actions. Note that other verbs which are ordinarily classified as stative can work in such contexts. For example, Piscean pointed out above that "try" can work, as in "I've just tried to help you". Yes, "just" here denotes a short time ago. The difference here is that "tried" is not purely stative in that example; it connotes some kind of action/tangible effort on the part of the speaker. In contrast, "want" cannot work this way. I appreciate this may seem difficult/confusing for learners, so that's why it's important to take note of what is natural and what is not.


These are not complete sentences, so I cannot really comment. See above.

Teechar just for your information and thanks as always.
I am more inclined to think that stative verbs can be used together with present perfect tense and time adverbs therefore not as unnatural as contributors here think.

This is an example from a Brit:

http://scan.lusu.co.uk/index.php/2014/12/07/interview-jim-noir/

"I have recently wanted to meet Chevy Chase"

This is an example from an Irish:

https://irelandfamilyvacations.com/say-happy-christmas-in-irish/irish-language-gaelige/

"I have just wished you a Happy Christmas" (referring the celebration card he has just posted)

This is an example from an American:

http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp204-us12/about-the-course/

" I have recently wanted to find out more information on the subject..." ( An academician describing a topic)

 

[Matthew Wai]

The OP may also be interested in the following examples:
https://fraze.it/n_search.jsp?q="have+just+wanted+to"&l=0

I can say "I wanted to..." and this is complete action

I don't think 'want' is an action that can be completed. 'Wanted' refers to a state in the past.

 

[Franck87]

The OP may also be interested in the following examples:
https://fraze.it/n_search.jsp?q="have+just+wanted+to"&l=0


I don't think 'want' is an action that can be completed. 'Wanted' refers to a state in the past.

Thanks Matthew, yes I meant indeed event/situation by saying "action" in my early post. This is the essence of asking my question.
The fact that it is a stative verb doesn't avoid people using it with time adverbs and present perfect in recent past context; unlike what has been told in this thread so far.

You also say "wanted refers to a state in the past" therefore why not in "recent past"? In the end present perfect tense have past tense meaning too.

 

[Matthew Wai]

The present perfect refers to an action completed in the recent past, but 'want' is not an action that can be completed because it is a stative verb.

That's all I know.

 

[teechar]

Teechar, just for your information, and thanks as always,
I am more inclined to think that stative verbs can be used together with present perfect tense and time adverbs, therefore, are not as unnatural as contributors here think.

This is an example from a Brit:

http://scan.lusu.co.uk/index.php/2014/12/07/interview-jim-noir/

"I have recently wanted to meet Chevy Chase"

I refer you to my previous answers on this. "Recently" here does not refer to a short action that ended shortly beforehand. This is again similar to "I've always wanted to be a lumberjack."

This is an example from an Irish:

https://irelandfamilyvacations.com/say-happy-christmas-in-irish/irish-language-gaelige/

"I have just wished you a Happy Christmas" (referring the celebration card he has just posted)

I agree with Piscean's answer above that "wish" is not a stative verb here.

This is an example from an American:

http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp204-us12/about-the-course/

" I have recently wanted to find out more information on the subject..." (An academician describing a topic)

Again, this refers to a longer time frame.

 

[Franck87]

I refer you to my previous answers on this. "Recently" here does not refer to a short action that ended shortly beforehand. This is again similar to "I've always wanted to be a lumberjack."
.

I don't agree with you in this context. That guy maybe have watched Chevy Chase movies for days but recently let's say hours before the interview decided that he must meet Chevy Chase. I have similar stance with academician example. "Always" isn't an adverb that I am asking for it obviously refers way more past.

 

[Matthew Wai]

I think 'I have recently wanted to' may mean 'In the last month, I have wanted to ...', where 'the last month' refers to the last 30 days.

 

[teechar]

I don't agree with you in this context. That guy may [STRIKE]be[/STRIKE] have watched Chevy Chase movies for days but recently, let's say hours before the interview, decided that he must meet Chevy Chase. I have a similar stance with the academician's example. "Always" isn't an adverb that I am asking [STRIKE]for[/STRIKE] about because it obviously refers [STRIKE]way more[/STRIKE] to a time further back in the past.

We're going around in circles here! For the last time, the "just" in "have/has just wanted" can only naturally refer to "only". Also, "have/has recently wanted" is not about some quick action that occurred shortly beforehand. If you have something new to add, then you're more than welcome to do so. Otherwise, I see little point in repeating the same points over and over again.

 

[emsr2d2]

I think 'I have recently wanted to' may mean 'In the last month, I have wanted to ...', where 'the last month' refers to the last 30 days.

It would also then include a specific number of times that the wanting happened (and probably what the speaker wanted).

I have recently wanted to eat chocolate every single day!
Recently, I have wanted a drink of water in the middle of the night for no apparent reason.