Thus she spake, and as she was going up ...

[Margaret Cavendish]

From The Blazing World by Margaret Cavendish. This is what I am trying to figure out:

"Thus she spake, and as she was going up, up started Honesty (for she has not always so much discretion as she ought to have) and interrupted Prudence."

(Prudence and Honesty are characters.)

What does 'going up' mean in this context? Is it a reference to something about her speech? Something physical? Some antiquated turn of phrase? Wiktionary has not been super helpful and neither has ChatGPT. I've been unable to find another use of this phrase, in this manner, as the words themselves are so common and I don't get good search results.

Here is a little more context:

"Rashness having thus ended her Speech, Prudence rose and declared her self in this manner:

Beautiful Truth, Great Fortune, and you the rest of my noble Friends; I am come a great and long journey in the behalf of my dear Friend the Duke of Newcastle; not to make more wounds, but, if it be possible, to heal those that are made already. Neither do I presume to be a Deity; but my onely request is, that you would be pleased to accept of my Offering, I being an humble and devout supplicant; and since no offering is more acceptable to the Gods, then the offering of Peace; in order to that, I desire to make an agreement between Fortune, and the Duke of Newcastle.

Thus she spake, and as she was going up, up started Honesty (for she has not always so much discretion as she ought to have) and interrupted Prudence."

If you want even more context, here is the whole book: https://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/newcastle/blazing/blazing.html

Can someone please help me understand this? I am working on a historical translation of this book so that I can share more women philosophers with the world, since most that are taught about in school, especially from this period, are men. I don't want to guess on M.C's intention here. I want to reflect her work honestly and truly.

Thank you.

 

[emsr2d2]

Before we can respond, you need to add the name of the author after the title in the first line of your text. You must always cite your source correctly (title and author).

 

[probus]

In my opinion the hypertext link is adequate. Anyway the work is clearly in the public domain having been first published in the seventeenth century.

 

[Rover_KE]

In my opinion the hypertext link is adequate.

It isn’t for me. The author’s name should immediately follow the title. I shouldn’t have to click on a link to search for it after reading 36 lines of turgid text with my head starting to hurt.

 

[Margaret Cavendish]

It isn’t for me. The author’s name should immediately follow the title. I shouldn’t have to click on a link to search for it after reading 36 lines of turgid text with my head starting to hurt.

Didn't know my bad. I edited it into the op. The author is the same as my username. Also the author's name is on line 2 of that link, right at the top.

Now that I have followed the rules, I hope I can get help learning.

 

[Rover_KE]

I didn't know. My bad. I edited it into the OP.

Please note my corrections.

 

[Margaret Cavendish]

Please note my corrections.

Thanks. Any insight on the subject of this thread?

 

[emsr2d2]

My best guess is that "going up" there means "standing up". She stood up while still talking but, at the same time, Honesty also stood up and interrupted her.
It is just a guess though. This kind of treacle-like writing is what I hated about studying English Literature at school.

 

[Margaret Cavendish]

My best guess is that "going up" there means "standing up". She stood up while still talking but, at the same time, Honesty also stood up and interrupted her.
It is just a guess though. This kind of treacle-like writing is what I hated about studying English Literature at school.

This is what ChatGPT told me-- it is either about physical movement or some kind of rise in speech. It is my best guess too. But what has me curious is this (incomplete) definition for 'go up' on wiktionary:

1. (cricket) To appeal for a dismissal.

In the context of this text (a court case of sorts between the Duke/Duchess and Fortune) this would make a lot of sense. It is an appeal to Fortune. It would make a lot of sense if this were what she meant.

But I cannot, for the life of me, find any other examples of this usage. It's incredibly difficult to search for this phrase in a way that leads to any useful results. And like I said in the OP--I don't want to guess.

Right now I am going through some of her other works to see if there are other instances where she uses this phrase.

The reason I am not sure about the definitions I listed in the first part of this post (this one, not the OP) is because speaking up or stepping up do not really make a whole lot of sense in context (wouldn't she already be standing front and center?) She'd already begun her speech and concluded her previous point in a very amicable manner that would not suggest she is speaking louder either.

The usage I am postulating about would fit very well in context, but I cannot find examples of what seems to be an archaic and obscure usage of 'going up'.

And God... Margaret Cavendish is awful with this kind of stuff. Linguistics aside, she is an intentionally vague writer. I'd give examples but they would be inappropriate for this forum.

Anyway, thank you for your response.

 

[BobK]

This is what ChatGPT told me-- it is either about physical movement or some kind of rise in speech. It is my best guess too. But what has me curious is this (incomplete) definition for 'go up' on wiktionary:

1. (cricket) To appeal for a dismissal.

I'm prety sure you can rule this out. 'Going up' in a cricketing context is colloquial. I've always assumed it referred to the flamboyant gestures appealing cricketers make.

I imagine there's some sort of agreed formal procedure here. People with offerings stand up, address the 'court', and then go up to the front to leave their offerings on an alttar of some sort. This doesn't work, though, when the offering is not a physical thing; so I'm baffled.

Trying to make head or tail of this text is complicated by a number of things, particularly the facts that

• there was, in 1668, no agreed standard in spelling (for example, I think 'then' means 'than' here):
  >no offering is more acceptable to the Gods, then the offering of >Peace; in order to that
• the printing techmology itself was error-prone: (for example, 'in order to that' is an obvious typographical error).

Sorry. Good luck!

 

[Tarheel]

I'm not certain, but I think when "Honesty" is used there it's a personification of that quality.

 

[BobK]

Must be

 

[Margaret Cavendish]

I'm prety sure you can rule this out. 'Going up' in a cricketing context is colloquial. I've always assumed it referred to the flamboyant gestures appealing cricketers make.

I imagine there's some sort of agreed formal procedure here. People with offerings stand up, address the 'court', and then go up to the front to leave their offerings on an alttar of some sort. This doesn't work, though, when the offering is not a physical thing; so I'm baffled.

Trying to make head or tail of this text is complicated by a number of things, particularly the facts that

• there was, in 1668, no agreed standard in spelling (for example, I think 'then' means 'than' here):
  >no offering is more acceptable to the Gods, then the offering of >Peace; in order to that
• the printing techmology itself was error-prone: (for example, 'in order to that' is an obvious typographical error).

Sorry. Good luck!

Is THAT why it says cricket? I don't know anything about the sport--I was thinking of the bug. Did not know that appeal/dismissal were terms used in the sport. That makes a lot of sense.

Wiktionary does not usually format things this way so it threw me off and I was thinking it meant like, 'obsolete' or something. Like crickets chirping? I don't know lol.

This book predates the popularity of cricket so I doubt there is any correlation there. Thank you for this insight... seriously lol. This helps a lot.

I am not sure that 'in order to that' is a typographical error because it pops up on both the 1666 edition and the 1668 release which had a lot of the typos and spelling weirdness fixed to more modern standards. But also--- I can't see how it isn't an error. I just know that it made it through the edits lol.

anywho- Does anyone have any strong opinions on either the 'stepping up' or 'speaking up' interpretations of this phrase in this particular context? Neither one is making complete sense to me.

I wonder if it isn't meant in the 'moving' sense as in 'moving' her speech. They had the idea back then that the mind had 'motions' which formed thoughts. Even today we have phrases like 'going forward' which can be used in a similar speech-like sense to signify the moving of ideas in speech (or more aptly, something like a meeting).

 

[Margaret Cavendish]

I'm not certain, but I think when "Honesty" is used there it's a personification of that quality.

Correct! Honesty, Prudence, and Rashness are all essentially lawyers. Fortune is the respondent. Truth is the judge.