Work, Live, Teach, Study- He has worked…

[Alice Chu]

Hello, dear teachers.
Could you please tell me if my understanding is correct? Thank you very much.

Only four verbs (work, live, teach, study) could be used in perfect tenses to mean action duration.
1. He has worked in the company for over 20 years. He works hard.
= He has been working in the company for over 20 years. He works hard.

2. She had lived in London since she was a child. She liked London a lot.
= She had been living in London since she was a child. She liked London a lot.

3. I will have taught English for 30 years by the time I retire.
= I will have been teaching English for 30 years by the time I retire.

4. Joe has studied English since he was 7. He wants to learn English well.
= Joe has been studying English since he was 7. He wants to learn English well.

 

[jutfrank]

What understanding? Do you mean this?:

Only four verbs (work, live, teach, study) could be used in perfect tenses to mean action duration.

No, that's very wrong. What makes you think there are only four verbs?

 

[Tdol]

He has smoked for twenty years.

 

[Alice Chu]

Hello, dear teachers.

State verbs (non-continuous verbs) can only be used in perfect simple tenses to mean state duration.
Action verbs (continuous verbs) are normally used in perfect continuous tenses to mean action duration and in perfect simple tenses to mean action completion.
Someone says the four action verbs “work, live, teach, study” can be used in both perfect simple and perfect continuous tenses to mean action duration. I wonder if only the four action verbs can be used in perfect simple tense to mean action duration because I have written wrong sentences as the following:
1. She has cleaned the house for two hours.
2. She has learned to drive for two months, but she still can’t drive well.

The more I read, the more confused I became.
Could you please help me teach my students to use the two tenses correctly? Thank you very much.

 

[jutfrank]

You must get rid of the idea that there are only four action verbs.

Are you an English teacher, Alice? Have you ever considered studying English grammar from a textbook written specifically for English teachers? It's important that you understand English grammar yourself before attempting to teach it to others.

Tell us a little bit about your students. How old are they? What level are they?

 

[emsr2d2]

Someone says the four action verbs “work, live, teach, study” can be used in both perfect simple and perfect continuous tenses to mean action duration.

Who is this mysterious "someone"?

 

[Alice Chu]

Hello, dear teachers.

I have taught English to students aged from 12 to 18 years old. I was forced to retire from teaching at school because of ill health, but I have been an English tutor since I left school.

I think if we use perfect continuous tenses, instead of perfect simple tenses, to mean duration of actions, and state verbs without actions have to be used in perfect simple tenses to mean duration of states, it will be much easier for learners to understand.
The point confusing me is that I don’t know exactly which action verbs can be used in both perfect simple and perfect continuous tenses to mean duration.

Someone says:
[h=3]USE 2 Duration From the Past Until Now (Non-Continuous Verbs)[/h]
With Non-Continuous Verbs and non-continuous uses of Mixed Verbs, we use the Present Perfect to show that something started in the past and has continued up until now. "For five minutes," "for two weeks," and "since Tuesday" are all durations which can be used with the Present Perfect.
Examples:

• I have had a cold for two weeks.
• She has been in England for six months.
• Mary has loved chocolate since she was a little girl.

Although the above use of Present Perfect is normally limited to Non-Continuous Verbs and non-continuous uses of Mixed Verbs, the words "live," "work," "teach," and "study" are sometimes used in this way even though they are NOT Non-Continuous Verbs.

I have read some grammar textbooks, but they don’t help a lot. Could you please recommend a useful one to me? Thank you very much.

 

[jutfrank]

I can't identify the exact question that's being asked. Is it here?:

The point confusing me is that I don’t know exactly which action verbs can be used in both perfect simple and perfect continuous tenses to mean duration.

I don't think it's much use to trying to compile a list of verbs that can be used in both perfect simple and perfect continuous tenses.

I'm guessing that what you're asking is which verbs can denote actions that can happen for an extended period of time. For example, you can live somewhere, work somewhere, study something, or teach something for a prolonged period of time, (in the order of several decades with those particular examples) but you can't kick something, turn on the TV, sneeze, or get married for a prolonged period of time because those verbs denote single actions.

Am I close to understanding what you're asking?

 

[emsr2d2]

And yet "I've been sneezing for over four hours!" is a perfectly grammatical sentence, as is "He's been kicking that football against my wall for forty minutes. Tell him to stop!"

 

[jutfrank]

And yet "I've been sneezing for over four hours!" is a perfectly grammatical sentence, as is "He's been kicking that football against my wall for forty minutes. Tell him to stop!"

Those are fantastic examples of the second, quite distinct way we use the present perfect continuous—to show that a short-duration action happens repeatedly over an extended period of time.


(It's times like these when one wishes the site had a timeline-drawing tool.)

 

[Alice Chu]

Hello, dear teachers.

Someone says on the website below.
Present Perfect Tense | ENGLISH PAGE
www.englishpage.com › verbpage › presentperfect

The writer says:
Although the above use of Present Perfect is normally limited to Non-Continuous Verbs and non-continuous uses of Mixed Verbs, the words "live," "work," "teach," and "study" are sometimes used in this way even though they are NOT Non-Continuous Verbs.

My question:
Can all continuous verbs be used with perfect simple and perfect continuous tenses to denote duration of actions? Are there any rules for learners to follow? Could you please help me with my problems? Thank you very much.

1. I have done / have been doing my homework for two hours, but I’m not finished yet.
2. He hasn’t smoked / hasn’t been smoking for a couple of days. He is trying to quit smoking.
3. She has watched / has been watching TV since she finished dinner.

 

[jutfrank]

Can all continuous verbs be used with perfect simple and perfect continuous tenses to denote duration of actions?

In principle, yes. I really don't like the idea of 'continuous' (and 'non-continuous') verbs, by the way. I think what the writer is referring to are better described as action verbs.

Are there any rules for learners to follow?

If you can imagine that an action can happen for an extended period of time, then the verb which denotes that action can in principle be used with a progressive aspect.

Could you please help me with my problems?

I think your main problem might be that you've been reading the explanations on English Club, which have confused you, and given you a misleading idea about types of verb. It's hard to say.

 

[GoesStation]

The writer says:
Although the above use of Present Perfect is normally limited to Non-Continuous Verbs and non-continuous uses of Mixed Verbs, the words "live," "work," "teach," and "study" are sometimes used in this way even though they are NOT Non-Continuous Verbs.

The writer's misuse of capitalization tells me this writer is careless. You should look elsewhere for advice about English. I've underlined ten errors above. I'm allowing the capitalized "NOT" because that's an acceptable way to emphasize a word.

 

[Tarheel]

Would someone please tell me what a noncontinuous verb is?
:-?

 

[jutfrank]

Would someone please tell me what a noncontinuous verb is?
:-?

It's not completely clear, but according to the writer on English Club, it's a verb which doesn't typically work well in an -ing form.

So that includes state verbs, like be and possessive have:

My Lamborghini is being yellow. :cross:
I am having two sisters and a brother. :cross:

And it also covers mental verbs, intentional verbs, inchoative verbs, and who knows what else.

Although I see the writer's good intention to make such a simplified, practical distinction, the problem with this idea is:

a) It's not possible to make a clear distinction, in my opinion, however useful it may seem.
b) It's misleading to suggest that it is possible.
c) The way he/she has categorised the verbs is extremely messy, which is contributing to Alice Chu's confusion.

 

[Tarheel]

It's never good to cause confusion when explaining something. (An explanation is supposed to clear up confusion, not cause more of it.)