Uncountable nouns

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Bennevis said:
Find one on "a music".
Click to expand...

This thread is becoming more likely to be continued int the "Fun And Games" section - as a quiz for unlikely, yet possible, collocations. ;-)

charliedeut
 
This totally contradicts what textbooks have been telling us for many years. I'm sure many people would be surprised to see this kind of usage.
 
Bennevis said:
Find one on "a music".
Click to expand...
It's really the essence of Portugal, a music that captures the rhythm and cadence of the ocean waves. That's the first COCA example I found. There are plenty more.

You really don't get the point, do you?
 
Bennevis said:
This totally contradicts what textbooks have been telling us for many years. I'm sure many people would be surprised to see this kind of usage.
Click to expand...

I'm sure many would be. But not native speakers.
 
charliedeut said:
This thread is becoming more likely to be continued int the "Fun And Games" section - as a quiz for unlikely, yet possible, collocations. ;-)

charliedeut
Click to expand...
I did think about starting a thread there, but I thought it would end up having just one participant. ;-)
 
It's really sad to see English being mangled. It's probably the most marred language in history. I will never tell anyone I'll teach that it's possible to say "a money" or "a furniture". I'll stick to the rules set out by prominent native authors and followed by tens of millions of people all over the world.
 
Bennevis said:
It's really sad to see English being mangled. It's probably the most marred language in history. I will never tell anyone I'll teach that it's possible to say "a money" or "a furniture". I'll stick to the rules set out by prominent native authors and followed by tens of millions of people all over the world.
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Whatever. It's not a big problem in my opinion because a student can easily get by without ever saying "a money" or "a furniture". They might not ever hear or read that either. Still, your position is untenable.
 
Talk to Roger Woodham to see what he thinks.

Alexandre from Brazil writes:


I have some doubts about uncountable nouns. Music is uncountable, so it is wrong if you use a before music. What is the correct form to use? Is it possible to use a before an adjective with an uncountable noun?


  • I have a beautiful music to show you.
Roger Woodham (http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv283.shtml) replies:
You're quite right, Alexandre. Music is an uncountable or mass noun so we cannot say a music or even a beautiful music. Instead we have to use some or any or, if we want to refer to a single piece of music, we must use a partitive construction such as a piece of:



  • I'm going to play you some music by Chopin.
  • Have you heard this piece of music that he composed in 1826?

  • I don't think I've ever heard any music by Chopin.
 
Bennevis, this is becoming unreasonable. We have demonstrated that "a music" is fine, meaning "a type of music". If someone else thinks that it's wrong, what does that show us? It only show us that Roger Woodham thinks that it's wrong. Roger Woodham does not speak for all native speakers out there.
 
Bennevis said:
Roger Woodham (http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv283.shtml) replies:
You're quite right, Alexandre. Music is an uncountable or mass noun so we cannot say a music or even a beautiful music
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Unfortunately for Mr Woodham, people can, and do, say and write 'a music'. The contexts in which they do so may be quite rare, but they are natural enough.

If students of mine came up with such an example, I would point out that it is rare. I would probably warn them that they are unlikely ever to come up with another convincing example of their own, and tell them that, for practical purposes it is pretty safe to take it that 'music' is almost always used uncountably. But, I would not tell them that to use 'music' countably is always automatically wrong. Because it's not.
 
Native speakers make mistakes too. "You must've wrote". I can recall the "he's been gone since Monday" phrase that was absolutely smashed by the same native speakers that are so ardently "liking" every single post that the non-native speakers put up.
 
Let's try your favorite "a weather". And if this one is not absolutely uncountable, then I'll personally write a letter to that language purification institution to ask them what's going on with English.
 
You must've wrote is not something that most native speakers would accept as standard.
It's really the essence of Portugal, a music that captures the rhythm and cadence of the ocean waves is something that most native speakers would accept as standard.

If you cannot accept that, Bennevis, there is no point in continuing. I am not going to close the thread, but I am leaving it.
 
Bennevis said:
Let's try your favorite "a weather". And if this one is not absolutely uncountable, then I'll personally write a letter to that language purification institution to ask them what's going on with English.
Click to expand...

Davao City is typhoon-free. The city enjoys a weather that remains balmy all year round. It is characterized by a uniform distribution of rainfall, temperature, humidity, and air pressure. It has no pronounced wet or dry season.

Davao City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good luck with the letter!
 
Bennevis said:
Let's try your favorite "a weather". And if this one is not absolutely uncountable, then I'll personally write a letter to that language purification institution to ask them what's going on with English.
Click to expand...

OK. Is Herman Melville good enough? (1876)

Peers, peers--yes, needs that these must pair.
Clarel was young. In promise fine,
To him here first were brought together
Exceptional natures, of a weather
Strange as the tropics with strange trees,
Strange birds, strange fishes, skies and seas,
To one who in some meager land
His bread wins by the horny hand.

(http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Clarel/Part_1/Canto_31)
 
I agree there is no point in continuing this discussion. The exception proves the rule. And if you guys can't organize your own language and keep lying to students all over the world about what's really going on in real life, then
 
I'm not really sure that I can see the point in continuing with this. You say English is being mangled. Native speakers say that the language is simply changing or evolving. Many words, phrases and usages change over time. I'm pretty sure that textbooks can't keep up with the actual language. It's the same reason that the native speakers here spend a lot of time advising people as to whether or not something sounds natural in addition to/instead of whether it's correct or not.
 
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