[Grammar] Comma – connecting ideas.

[Auldlangsyne]

What you are like! You were entrusted with the job and you failed to carry out your responsibilities!
Hmm, it sounds about right. Some people with OCD hoard useless stuff, good job you make good use of your abilities.

There are no red marks on my writing, so it must be very shitty, as well, all of it! :-o
Well, there may not be any marks, but I now learn from putting more attention to the way teachers and some kind and generous obsessive people reply here. For me, reading replies to the posts is very beneficial, and it helps me a great deal to understand sentence structure. Whether I can use it later on in practice, it is a different issue, but I am still learning – that’s my excuse anyway. I think I am obsessive as well. I try, and try to understand punctuation – to no avail, and yet keep on trying to get it right, as if there was no tomorrow.

 

[Tarheel]

Actually, no red marks is a good thing. (BTW, I used to use both red and blue, but I forgot what the difference was.)

(I am tempted to say What's the idea? I'm supposed to be the funny one here. (Oh, wait! I did say that.) ;-))

(Can you guess where the extra comma is? )

;-)

 

[Auldlangsyne]

Actually, no red marks is a good thing. (BTW, I used to use both red and blue, but I forgot what the difference was.)


(Can you guess where the extra comma is? )

;-)

Blue could be sympathetic, red to show how wrong learners are.

Extra comma? Here: “Panda eats, shoots & leaves.”

But jokes aside, in my text I would say: after “try”?

 

[Tarheel]

Blue could be sympathetic, red to show how wrong learners are.

Extra comma? Here: “Panda eats, shoots & leaves.”

But jokes aside, in my text I would say: after “try”?

Yes! You're a good student.

:-D

(I just use red now.)

 

[Auldlangsyne]

:-D

(I just use red now.)

I do hope, you will stay funny (if I may say so) despite seeing red.

 

[Tarheel]

I do hope you will stay funny (if I may say so) despite seeing red.

Well, blue is the traditional color for proofing things, but I guess I'm a red guy now.

;-)

 

[Tarheel]

What a difference a comma makes.

Panda eats shoots and leaves.
​

Yeah? So what else is new?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Panda eats, shoots and leaves.
​

Watch out for that panda. It's armed and dangerous.

;-)

 

[Auldlangsyne]

Comma seems to be a very powerful and helpful tool, yet so very confusing. I think I tend to use it more often than anyone else.

What’s new? Voilà:

“Slow children crossing” :-D


I was right about blue then. (And red.)

I am sure you passed your school exams with flying colours, which proved to be well deserved.

 

[Tarheel]

Ah, that's the problem. You use commas like you are trying to use them up before they spoil. ;-)

Slow children crossing
​

These kids take a long time to cross the street.

;-)

I try and try and try and try and try.

or


I try, and I try, and I try, and I try.

​

So, what's the difference?

 

[Tarheel]

Don't try to figure out a cat,
because you can't do that.


​

Obviously, it means you can't figure out a cat, not that you can't try to figure out a cat (but it could mean that (although not likely)).

The word "try" is an interesting one. Maybe I'll talk about that more later.

 

[Tarheel]

I used some commas to stay on topic. ;-)

A whole bunch of trying.


I tried to teach my cat arithmetic, but she wouldn't pay attention.

He tried to cross the river. (This can't be good.)

He tried to get out of bed.

He tried to cross the street.

He tried to fly.

He tried to read the letter.

He tried to get her to marry him.

We didn't do it, but we tried.

He tried to get a raise, but he didn't.

He tried to climb to the top of the mountain.

He tried to write a poem, but he couldn't rhyme.

"Don't try. Do." (Yoda)


​

The word "try" indicates effort. But it also indicates something else: lack of success. If your boss tells you he wants you to finish a certain project by a certain time he doesn't want to hear you say you'll try. If you tell a person to try to relax you are saying you don't think they will be able to do it. And if you try to go to sleep you might miss out on a lot of sleep time. And how about if I say I am going to try to explain something to somebody? (Or even worse, I am going to try to do my best to explain something.)

So don't try. Do.

 

[Auldlangsyne]

I know exactly, what are you driving at, but ‘can do attitude’ I know only to well.

My problem is, that the more I read about comma, the more I am doubtful that it is strictly related to a sentence structure, and that the context often indicates the use of a comma. The question is, for me, to understand the context from the grammatical point of view. I think most people mess up with comma occasionally, but I definitely misuse it too often, and don’t feel comfortable with it.

Oh Lord, won’t you help me,
To figure it out?
Where I need a comma,
Where I’ll do without?

There are rules and good rulebooks,
There is also common sense,
Oh Lord, proof that you love me,
And let me easily guess.

(Janis and A)


I have come to the conclusion that it might be a good idea to learn about each coordinating conjunction separately, in order to consider different scenarios.
I did some research today regarding using a comma after initial ‘so’, and found interesting information, such as: omitted coma after ‘so’ may sound biblical “so it shall be written, so it shall be than”, while in other cases – with the comma, it may sound (but doesn’t have to) childish: “so, he went to his parents, and asked for more toys”.
So, to sum up, I think I will know whether to you use a comma after introductory ‘so’. Time will tell whether I really know how to put the theory into practice.

So let me put it this way, I hope I have made some progress.

So, what do you reckon?


In “So, to sum up,” – I think there should be a comma, but it was omitted everywhere I have checked.

So(,?) now(?) after all that time I have spent gathering all the relevant information, I am still a bit confused. I may have not moved forward an inch after all.

 

[Tarheel]

A good rule of thumb is to use a comma wherever you would pause in speech (unless you pause excessively).

I know exactly what are you driving at, but ‘can do attitude’ I know only too well.

My problem is, that the more I read about commas, the more I am doubtful that they are strictly related to sentence structure, and that the context often indicates the use of a comma. The question is, for me, to understand the context from the grammatical point of view. I think most people mess up with commas occasionally, but I definitely use too many, and I don’t feel comfortable with it.

Oh Lord, won’t you help me
To figure it out--
Where I need a comma,
Where I’ll do without?

There are rules and good rulebooks.
There is also common sense.
Oh Lord, proof that you love me,
And let me easily guess.

(Janis and A)

For one thing, I don't think you can misuse a comma. (For one thing, they can't hurt anybody.) For another thing, that is rather clever ("proof that you love me"), and those punctuation errors are there on purpose, aren't they? To give me something to do, maybe? ;-)

I have come to the conclusion that it might be a good idea to learn about each coordinating conjunction separately, in order to consider different scenarios.
I did some research today regarding using a comma after initial ‘so’, and found interesting information, such as: omitted coma after ‘so’ may sound biblical “so it shall be written, so it shall be than”, while in other cases – with the comma, it may sound (but doesn’t have to) childish: “so, he went to his parents, and asked for more toys”.
So, to sum up, I think I will know whether to use a comma after introductory ‘so’. Time will tell whether I really know how to put the theory into practice.

So let me put it this way -- I hope I have made some progress.

So, what do you reckon?


In “So, to sum up,” – I think there should be a comma, but it was omitted everywhere I have checked.

So(,?) now(?) after all that time I have spent gathering all the relevant information, I am still a bit confused. I may have not moved forward an inch after all.

Actually, I think you are doing quite well. Remember that nobody is perfect. Not even me. ;-)

(This is what it is like to be obsessive/compulsive. When I see errors I feel like I have to fix them. (Aren't you glad you're not me? ;-)))

(In some cases the use of a comma is optional, and in that case I leave it where it is. (It wasn't optional in that sentence.))

Where not to use a comma:

between subject and verb
between a verb and its object
between an adjective and the noun that it modifies (Example: big red pants)

​

Are we having fun?

;-)

 

[Auldlangsyne]

Are we having fun?

;-)

Aye, you are right there. :-D

Of course I threw a few errors in, to test you.


I did not put a comma after the phrase ‘of course’ on purpose. I was saying it without a pause. I hope it is acceptable, even though 99.9% sentences on the Internet had a comma placed after ‘of course’. I put it in after ‘in’ - not to be merged with ‘to’, into ‘into’.


I came across this yesterday:

“Toilet only for disabled elderly pregnant children. Thank you for shopping with us”.

Omitting commas may really confuse.

 

[Tarheel]

I don't think there are any disabled elderly pregnant children. :roll:

You can certainly find some strange signs in public. I saw one at a light rail station a while back advising people not to walk on the tracks. It occurred to me that there is really no point to putting up a sign advising people not to do something nobody in his right mind would do anyway. (That sign was up for only a few hours. Maybe CATS (Charlotte Area Transit System) got a few calls telling them how stupid they are.)

By the way, have you seen my latest clever couplets (on the couplets thread, which I started as RonBee)? (I finally got a comma on this post, thus staying on topic. )

:up:

 

[emsr2d2]

I came across this yesterday:

“Toilet only for disabled elderly pregnant children. Thank you for shopping with us”.

Omitting commas may really confuse.

That sign would be no better with commas if that exact wording was used. It needs to read: Toilet solely for use by the disabled, the elderly, children and pregnant women.

 

[Auldlangsyne]

They took the warning off, and put things back on track, so to say, then? :-D

I have been trying to find your couplets, to no avail. If I had the name of the thread I would type it in the search engine. I haven’t discovered all the topics yet, but from what I see, this place is more than just a forum.

Poetry is fascinating. Voicing thoughts through poetry can be truly mesmerising, as it allows any writer to play with words, which leads to nearly unlimited use of expressions. Reading poetry is a bit like learning another foreign language. Personally I like romantic, funny and rhyme poems, but it is not that easy to write. If you overuse the rhyme – it’s a crime :-D

I once was a guest at Lord Byron’s estate – as a tourist :-D. That place is idyllic for writing. Large open space with lots of different gardens – great place for inspirational thoughts.

And, eh, there are different styles and techniques, one wanting to write should be familiarised with. But, fortunately, it is not as difficult as using commas. They both have one thing in common, in my opinion, though, definition, this is [gosh, so many commas here, I could do without the one before ‘though’, I guess]. There will always be one that doesn’t fit the established order (if there is such) – will be optional.

What I like about poetry is what remains unsaid. Where there are clues which require reading between the lines.


I think I used the commas correctly, did I? But there has been one thing on my mind for a while now. I remember someone once told me to use ‘so’ after ‘not’, and not ‘as’, and now I am not 100% sure about this part of the sentence: “it is not as difficult as”.

 

[TheParser]

I have been putting in commas and taking them out the whole morning writing this.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello, Auldlangsyne:

You probably already know this, but you are in very good company:

"I have spent most of the day putting in a comma, and the rest of the day taking it out."

-- Oscar Wilde

 

[Auldlangsyne]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello, Auldlangsyne:

You probably already know this, but you are in very good company:

"I have spent most of the day putting in a comma, and the rest of the day taking it out."

-- Oscar Wilde

Yes, this very quotation, among other worth remembering ones will stay in my mind forever.
:up:

 

[Rover_KE]

Yes, this very quotation, among others worth remembering, [STRIKE]ones[/STRIKE] will stay in my mind forever.
:up:

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