blink v. nictate v. wink

[GoesStation]

Would you explain the difference between these two and explain why the original poster preferred the past perfect tense?

1. "I had not heard of the verb nictate​ until this thread started."
2. I have not heard of the verb nictate [STRIKE]before this thread started/[/STRIKE]before [STRIKE]now[/STRIKE]."

I think there is no difference or it is very subtle so in almost all cases these two are interchangeable.

With my corrections the two sentences are equivalent.

 

[Tdol]

Do you think that until + past event and before now are synonymous?

 

[GoesStation]

With my corrections the two sentences are equivalent.

Do you think that until + past event and before now are synonymous?

Good point. Depending on when you say them, the two sentences may or may not be equivalent.

 

[bubbha]

I'm a 52-year-old native speaker. This is the first time I've ever heard or read the word "nictate".

 

[hhtt21]

Do you think that until + past event and before now are synonymous?

No, but I felt a similarity in their role in this case.

Can the adverb until be used in the present perfect when conveying these ideas, the hearing, watching, reading, seeing first time? Would you native speakers evaluate this one and explain the reason?

3. I have not heard of the word nictate until this thread started.


Thank you.

 

[GoesStation]

Would you native speakers evaluate this one and explain the reason?

3. I have not heard of the word nictate until this thread started.

I wouldn't be shocked to hear a native speaker say that, but I consider it careless usage. The speaker should use the past perfect.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

You wink with one eye at a time.
You blink with both eyes at the same time.

If you wink, one eye is open and one is shut.
If you blink, both eyes are shut.

And winking is intentional. Blinking is automatic.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I'm a 52-year-old native speaker. This is the first time I've ever heard or read the word "nictate".

Same here, and I'm 65.

 

[hhtt21]

I wouldn't be shocked to hear a native speaker say that, but I consider it careless usage. The speaker should use the past perfect.

Then adverbs of the past perfect and the present perfect are very different than each other, and I am wondering how I will learn.

Thank you.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Would you explain the difference between these two and explain why the original poster preferred the past perfect tense?

1. "I had not heard of the verb nictate​ until this thread started."
2. I have not heard of the verb nictate before this thread started/before now."

I think there is no difference or it is very subtle so in almost all cases these two are interchangeable.

Thank you.

More natural:

- I've never heard the word nictate until now.
- I haven't ever heard the word nictate before.
- I'd never heard the word nictate.

 

[hhtt21]

More natural:

1.I've never heard the word nictate until now.
2.I haven't ever heard the word nictate before.

I am confused about the use of adverbs in present perfect.

'Yes, you will be understood, but the present perfect is unlikely to be appropriate with such expressions as 'before' if you are still in your home country. It might just work if the words are uttered in the departure lounge at the airport.

By Jutfrank

Don't use "Until now". The grammar of present perfect already means until now.

Just say I have never been in a foreign country or I have never been abroad or I have never left Turkey.

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...now-v-hitherto-v-as-yet-v-heretofore-v-so-far

I feel something is wrong. I think this might be AmE v. BrE difference.

Thank you.

 

[Rover_KE]

Great picture. "The High Plains Drifter".

That reference is lost on me, Robert and Charlie.:-?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

That reference is lost on me, Robert and Charlie.:-?

It's just an illustration of someone squinting (rather than winking, blinking, or nictating).

Eastwood can squint with the best of 'em!

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

. . . By Jutfrank:

Don't use "Until now". The grammar of present perfect already means until now.

Just say I have never been in a foreign country or I have never been abroad or I have never left Turkey.​

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...now-v-hitherto-v-as-yet-v-heretofore-v-so-far

I feel something is wrong. I think this might be AmE v. BrE difference.

Thank you.

Hm. Whether you're from the UK or US, if you're abroad now, wouldn't dropping "until now" make the statement inaccurate?

Is there a grammarian who'd care to comment?

 

[Tdol]

Context would determine whether the person was in a foreign country or not. If they're not in a foreign country, then there seems to me to be no point in adding until now.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Context would determine whether the person was in a foreign country or not. If they're not in a foreign country, then there seems to me to be no point in adding until now.

Aha! Then maybe Hhtt is right. Maybe it is a difference between US and UK verb usage. As I understand the meanings of words, it's patently untrue to say you've never been abroad when you are abroad.

 

[GoesStation]

It would be natural and correct to say I've never been in a foreign country until now on your first trip abroad, though before would be a more economical choice of adverbs.

 

[hhtt21]

Aha! Then maybe Hhtt is right. Maybe it is a difference between US and UK verb usage. As I understand the meanings of words, it's patently untrue to say you've never been abroad when you are abroad.

I think Tdol means in your quote of his in #41 is that you can say both in abroad or not "I have never been in abroad" but if you say this when you are abroad you can add "until now" but if you say this in your home country you cannot add "until now" Am I true?

Thank you.

 

[GoesStation]

You may be correct (if I understand you, you're partly right), but you can't be true.

(There is an exception in the idiom "to be true to something/someone", but that doesn't apply here.)

 

[hhtt21]

You may be correct (if I understand you, you're partly right), but you can't be true.

(There is an exception in the idiom "to be true to something/someone", but that doesn't apply here.)

Why partly right? Don't you say until now/before can be added if you say it when you are abroad but until now/before cannot be added if you say it when you are still in your home country, being never stepped on abraod?

Thank you.