[Grammar] Which version is better?

[ohmyrichard]

Dear teachers,

The following are 6 versions of the first sentence of the body of an email recommending a website to someone. Which one or ones do you native speakers of English think is or are the way(s) you native speakers of English express the idea?

1. I found a website very useful to us English majors and would like to recommend it to you.

2. I have found a website which is very useful to us English majors and would like to recommend it to you.

3. I have found a website which is very useful to us English majors and I would like to recommend it to you.

4. Yesterday evening I logged on to a website which I found very useful to us English majors and I would like to recommend it to you.

5. Yesterday evening I logged on to a website which I found very useful to us English majors and which I would like to recommend to you.

6. Yesterday evening I logged on to a website which I found very useful to us English majors and I would like to recommend to you.

I personally like 3 and 4 better than the others, but I find it so hard to explain my reason for this preference. I am especially confused about whether we should use one or two which's in 5 and 6 if we have "I found very useful to us English majors" and "I would like to recommend to you" as two parallel relative clauses both modifying "a website". Would you please tell me which one or ones is or are the way(s) you native speakers express the idea? Besides, I beg you to also point out what is wrong with the other versions you do not use in this situation.

Thanks a lot.

 

[emsr2d2]

1 is incorrect.
The others are OK though you need to add a comma after "Yesterday evening" in 4, 5 and 6.

 

[ohmyrichard]

1 is incorrect.
The others are OK though you need to add a comma after "Yesterday evening" in 4, 5 and 6.

Thank you for replying to my question, emsr2d2.

Then would you please do me a fovour and tell me what's wrong with 1 and why 5, which has two which's, and 6, which has omitted one which, are both correct? Is it possible that if there is another sentence preceding 1 and in it there is already a mention of the website to be recommended to the receiver of the letter and we change 1 to "I found the website very useful to us English majors and would like to recommend it to you.", then this slightly changed version will also be right? In other words, my understanding of what's wrong with 1 is that the intentions of the writer of expressing the two ideas of "find a website" and "find the website useful to someone" converge on one place of the sentence but actually they should be expressed separately.

Looking forward to your answer.

 

[Weaver67]

Shouldn't commas be also put just before and after "English majors" in each of the sentences?
I have found a website which is very useful to us, English majors, and would like to recommend it to you.

 

[bhaisahab]

Shouldn't commas be also put just before and after "English majors" in each of the sentences?
I have found a website which is very useful to us, English majors, and would like to recommend it to you.

No.

 

[Weaver67]

I would like to try and express my opinion as to why the first sentence might be incorrect.
As far as I am concerned, when one says I find/found something (to be) very useful, he conveys one's opinion about the thing, but it is important that he/she should be more or less specific about the thing. In "I found a website very useful and would like to recommend it" this small word "a" (which is a determiner), so to say, spoils everything, since it doesn't give us any chance to determine what site in particular is very useful and recommended.

Not a teacher.

 

[ohmyrichard]

No.

Thanks, bhaisahab. Please do me another favour and take a look at post#3. Thanks a lot.

 

[bhaisahab]

I think #1 would be OK with a comma after "majors". I agree with emsr2d2 about 4, 5 and 6.

 

[Weaver67]

Is that comma the only thing that made #1 not OK?

Incidentally, #2 seems to lack a comma after "majors".

 

[Raymott]

1. is awkward, but it's not incorrect, in my opinion.

 

[tedmc]

I found a website very useful (to us English majors) and would like to recommend it to you.
I think the clause in bracket spoils the sentence which otherwise would have been clear.

When you say you find a website very useful, that is what you personally think it is, to you.
But in the sentence, it is also said that 'us English majors' would find the website useful.

The sentence would be clearer by adding three words(underlined) as follows:
I found a website which I think is very useful to us English majors and would like to recommend it to you. - which is similar to No. 2 and 3.
The present perfect "I have found" sounds better.

not a teacher

 

[ohmyrichard]

I think #1 would be OK with a comma after "majors". I agree with emsr2d2 about 4, 5 and 6.

Thanks. But as Weaver67 questioned in post # 9, is a lack of a comma after "majors" in 1 that makes it undesirable? Version 2 has no comma after "majors", either. In what sense is this comma after "majors" so important? When weaver67 suggested in post # 4 adding commas before and after "English majors" in 2, you said No to it. Would you please clear my foggy mind by giving a little bit further explanation? Thanks.

 

[ohmyrichard]

1. is awkward, but it's not incorrect, in my opinion.

Thanks. But would you please tell me in what sense Version 1 is awkward? Is what I said in post #3 right?

 

[Raymott]

Thanks. But would you please tell me in what sense Version 1 is awkward? Is what I said in post #3 right?

1. I found a website very useful to us English majors and would like to recommend it to you.
This is awkward because it could mean:
1a. "I found a website which is/would be very useful to English majors ..."
1b. "I found a website to be very useful to us English majors ..."
1c. "I found a website that I think would be very useful to us English majors ..."
It makes a reader wonder exactly what you mean. But as I said, it's not wrong, and I wouldn't worry about it too much.

5. "Yesterday evening I logged on to a website which I found very useful to us English majors and which I would like to recommend to you."
6. Yesterday evening I logged on to a website which I found very useful to us English majors and I would like to recommend it to you.
You don't need a second 'which', but you do need some reference, so you'd need to add 'it'.

 

[teechar]

It's not a matter of "awkward". #1 is incorrect!
I found a website which is very useful ... etc.
The relative clause cannot be reduced here.

I found a website (to be) useful to us English majors ... etc.
The indefinite article is incorrect here.
The sentence should be:
I found the website (to be) useful to us English majors ... etc.
Otherwise, it's actually mixing up two meanings of the verb "find":
- To discover something by searching and,
- To realize or experience something to be the case.
Having both meanings is possible in the one sentence of course, but then a relative clause is needed.

 

[bhaisahab]

It's not a matter of "awkward". #1 is incorrect!

No, it isn't.

 

[Raymott]

It's not a matter of "awkward". #1 is incorrect!
I disagree. It may be uncommon in your dialect.

I found a website which is very useful ... etc.
The relative clause cannot be reduced here.

Could you explain why? "I found a website which is very useful." = "I found a very useful website." But yes, if you truncate the sentence to "I found a website very useful" the meaning changes again. But it still has meaning, so it's a good sentence.

I found a website (to be) useful to us English majors ... etc.
The indefinite article is incorrect here.
The sentence should be:
I found the website (to be) useful to us English majors ... etc.

Yes, that would be preferred if the website is already identified, and if we are assuming that meaning. But compare, "I found a knife (to be) very useful to me as a screwdriver." This is a correct sentence in the correct context, and we are discussing what the sentence could possibly mean.


Otherwise, it's actually mixing up two meanings of the verb "find":
- To discover something by searching and,
- To realize or experience something to be the case.
Having both meanings is possible in the one sentence of course, but then a relative clause is needed.

I think you're missing the point. I know I have used "find" in different ways, though not in the same sentence. However, that's not an equivocation because I was listing possible meanings of sentences. In fact, it merely supports my contention that it's awkward - because that ambiguity exists.

 

[ohmyrichard]

It's not a matter of "awkward". #1 is incorrect!
I found a website which is very useful ... etc.
The relative clause cannot be reduced here.

I found a website (to be) useful to us English majors ... etc.
The indefinite article is incorrect here.
The sentence should be:
I found the website (to be) useful to us English majors ... etc.
Otherwise, it's actually mixing up two meanings of the verb "find":
- To discover something by searching and,
- To realize or experience something to be the case.
Having both meanings is possible in the one sentence of course, but then a relative clause is needed.

Thanks. It seems you agree with what I said in post #3.

 

[ohmyrichard]

5. "Yesterday evening I logged on to a website which I found very useful to us English majors and which I would like to recommend to you."
6. Yesterday evening I logged on to a website which I found very useful to us English majors and I would like to recommend it to you.
You don't need a second 'which', but you do need some reference, so you'd need to add 'it'.

Thanks. But your modified version 6 here is version 4 in my original post. In my OP, I intended 5 and 6 to be in a sharp contrast, with "I think is very useful to us English majors" and "I would like to recommend to you" as two parallel relative clauses sharing that one "which". But you seem to prefer to have "Yesterday evening I logged on to a website which I find useful to us English majors" and " I would like to recommend it to you" as two coordinate clauses in a compound sentence. Then, which one(s) of the following do you like still better?

a. Yesterday evening, I logged on to a website which I found very useful to us English majors , and I would like to recommend it to you.

b. Yesterday evening, I logged on to a website which I found very useful to us English majors, and now would like to recommend it to you.

c. I have found a website which I think is very useful to us English majors and I would like to recommend it to you.

d. I have found a website which I think is very useful to us English majors and would like to recommend it to you.

a and b form a group while c and d form another. But a reminder, the sentence we are discussing, as I have already said, is the first sentence of the body of an email.

Looking forward to your reply. Thanks a lot.

 

[teechar]

Thanks. It seems you agree with what I said in post #3.

Yes, I do. ;-)