what's wrong with these sentences.

[Freeguy]

What's wrong with these three sentences? They sound correct to me!

1. The families were told to evacuate their houses immediately at the time when the water began to go up.
2. It was not until she had arrived home when she remembered her appointment with the doctor.
3. George would certainly have attended the proceedings had the tire not flattened itself.

Thanks!

 

[MikeNewYork]

What's wrong with these three sentences? They sound correct to me!

1. The families were told to evacuate their houses immediately at the time when the water began to go up.
2. It was not until she had arrived home when she remembered her appointment with the doctor.
3. George would certainly have attended the proceedings had the tire not flattened itself.

Thanks!

I assume, from your past history here, that this is not homework.

1. I would change "go up" to "rise".
2. I would change "when" to "that".
3. I would change the end to "had he not had a flat tire". Tires do not flatten themselves.

 

[Freeguy]

I'm now convinced Mike. Apart from understanding your coherent explanations, only one more question left. Why did you change "when " to"that" in the second question?

 

[emsr2d2]

I'm now convinced Mike. Apart from understanding your coherent explanations, only one more question left. Why did you change "when " to"that" in the second question.?

The standard phrasing is "It was not until ... that ...". If you want to use "when", it would be "It was when she arrived home that she remembered her appointment". Without "when" or "that", it's "She didn't remember her appointment with the doctor until she arrived home".

 

[Raymott]

I don't believe that changing "go up" to "rise" changes 1 from an incorrect sentence to a correct one. It does change the sentence for the better though.

 

[Freeguy]

So you mean it's not incorrect? Or maybe it's just an awkward sentence from your viewpoint?

 

[Raymott]

So you mean it's not incorrect? Or maybe it's just an awkward sentence from your viewpoint?

1. The families were told to evacuate their houses immediately at the time when the water began to go up.
It's an awkward sentence from my viewpoint. There are several problems. Water in a flood does not go up/rise 'immediately', so it's awkward saying the families were notified immediately the water started to rise. It's also ambiguous. Were they notified when the water began to rise, or were they meant to evacuate when the water began to rise. "At the time when" doesn't sound like natural English. What's wrong with just "when"? Or even less: "The families were told to evacuate their houses immediately the water began to rise." This is correct, but maybe not the most common way of expressing it, and it's still ambiguous. Sometimes we have to do with less than perfect sentences. I would not call the original 'incorrect'.

 

[Raymott]

A possible disambiguation might be:
1. Immediately the waters began to rise, they were told to evacuate.
2. They were told that immediately the waters began to rise they should evacuate.

 

[MikeNewYork]

A possible disambiguation might be:
1. Immediately the waters began to rise, they were told to evacuate.
2. They were told that immediately the waters began to rise they should evacuate.

Your second sentence doesn't work for me. They were told that if the waters began to rise they should evacuate immediately.

 

[Raymott]

Your second sentence doesn't work for me. They were told that if the waters began to rise they should evacuate immediately.

I guess it depends on what they were told.

 

[Barb_D]

A possible disambiguation might be:
1. Immediately the waters began to rise, they were told to evacuate.
2. They were told that immediately the waters began to rise they should evacuate.

Is this British/AusE phrasing?

This is out and out ungrammatical in the American dialect, but given your expertise and the people who liked it, it's clearly okay in yours.

We'd have to say "As soon as the waters began to rise."

 

[5jj]

1. Immediately the waters began to rise, they were told to evacuate.
2. They were told that immediately the waters began to rise they should evacuate.

Is this British/AusE phrasing?

This is out and out ungrammatical in the American dialect, but given your expertise and the people who liked it, it's clearly okay in yours.

We'd have to say "As soon as the waters began to rise."

The 'immediately' is fine in BrE.

If we have no further context, then it could be read that that the waters were told to evacuate, However, I would assume that the sentences did appear in context. Nobody except my crusty old English master fifty years ago would take 'they' to mean anything but the people who received the warning.

 

[Raymott]

"They stood ready to wave them immediately the train appeared."
"Robbie could have bitten her tongue out immediately the words escaped."
BYU-BNC

It's very hard to find examples of this construction, but it does appear (as above), and we do say it.

 

[MikeNewYork]

"They stood ready to wave them immediately the train appeared."
"Robbie could have bitten her tongue out immediately the words escaped."
BYU-BNC

It's very hard to find examples of this construction, but it does appear (as above), and we do say it.

It is incorrect in AmE.

 

[Raymott]

Thanks, Mike. We know that, because Barb has just told us.

 

[Barb_D]

I'm glad for this thread, because I would never have guessed that this phrasing was grammatical in any dialect. Now it's been added to my always-growing list of differences. It's the sort of thing that I probably would not be able to produce if I wanted dialogue to sound natural (thought I've got "at the weekend" and "in the street" down now), but I can now recognize it as being okay. A people divided by a common language, indeed!