western/west South Dakota; southwestern/southwest South Dakota?

[sitifan]

Oglala: A member of a Native American people constituting a subdivision of the Lakota, formerly inhabiting the Black Hills region of western South Dakota, with a present-day population in southwest South Dakota.
https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Oglala

Which of the following expressions is not acceptable?
1. western South Dakota;
2. west South Dakota;
3. southwestern South Dakota;
4. southwest South Dakota.

 

[tedmc]

2 & 4 are not acceptable without the directional adjectives, western and south western.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I'd go along with all four. It looks like your dictionary would, too.

But like Ted and Goes, I prefer them with the -ern suffix.

I don't want to think about every state, but we usually say west Texas, not western Texas, and where I live, we say southern Maine, not south Maine.

South Dakota can probably swing both ways.

 

[GoesStation]

South Dakota can probably swing both ways.

I don't think so. Describing a part of a region whose name includes a compass point with another compass point makes for an unpleasant collision. Use the -ern adjectives.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I don't think so. Describing a part of a region whose name includes a compass point with another compass point makes for an unpleasant collision. Use the -ern adjectives.

I don't have strong feelings about this. And as I said, I like it your way better.

But looking at post #1, American Heritage Dictionary apparently likes southwest.

 

[probus]

On a lighter note, a few years ago some people seriously discussed renaming North Dakota just plain Dakota with no modifier. Apparently they felt that "North" was bad for business if not downright pejorative.

 

[probus]

I don't have strong feelings about this. And as I said, I like it your way better.

But looking at post #1, American Heritage Dictionary apparently likes southwest.

In this case I can't agree with tedmc. Speaking as an elderly person I have the impression that this is changing in AmE. I think people formerly used the -ern suffix more than they tend to do nowadays. But Texas may be an exception. I recall Marty Robbins singing sixty years ago of "the west Texas town of El Paso."

 

[tedmc]

I don't have strong feelings about this. And as I said, I like it your way better.

But looking at post #1, American Heritage Dictionary apparently likes southwest.

I think it sounds a bit strange to say southwest South Dakota. Imagine calling Southern California, South California.

The -ern suffix is probably omitted to make names sound shorter, being pragmatic rather than follow traditions/conventions.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

In this case I can't agree with tedmc. Speaking as an elderly person I have the impression that this is changing in AmE. I think people formerly use the -ern suffix more than they tend to do nowadays. But Texas may be an exception. I recall Marty Robbins singing sixty years ago of "the west Texas town of El Paso."

Yup! He dies for the love of Rosalita.

But the real hero of the tune is Grady Martin, the guitarist. Like, wow!

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

And theres nothing like a western west Texas western!

 

[sitifan]

And theres nothing like a western west Texas western!

What does the phrase in blue mean?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Texas_(album)

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

What does the phrase in blue mean?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Texas_(album)

West Texas is a region of the state of Texas.

The western end of west Texas is western west Texas.

A movie or TV show about the American southwest is called a western.

So a western set in the western side of west Texas is a western west Texas western.

Here's a western:

 

[GoesStation]

So a Western set in the western side of West Texas is a western West Texas Western.

See above. "West Texas" is the name of the region, so both words have to be capitalized. The film genre is a proper noun and must be capitalized.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

See above. "West Texas" is the name of the region, so both words have to be capitalized. The film genre is a proper noun and must be capitalized.

I'll take West Texas with a tip of the old sombrero.

TV Western? Absolutely not! You'll be capitalizing biopic and romcom and next!

 

[GoesStation]

TV Western? Absolutely not! You'll be capitalizing biopic and romcom and next!

Hmm, I think ya got me there, pardner. (Learners: that was stereotypical movie jargon and should not be emulated.)

 

[sitifan]

Yup! He dies for the love of Rosalita.
But the real hero of the tune is Grady Martin, the guitarist. Like, wow!

What does the sentence in red mean?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

What does the sentence in red mean?

Oops! Actually, her name is Felina, not Rosita. My mistake. Sorry!

In post #7, Probus said something about the song "El Paso." It's about a cowboy in West Texas who falls in love with Falina.

Here's the song, with that guitar player I mentioned, Grady Martin:

 

[probus]

What does the sentence in red mean?

There is no idiom and no mystery to it. Just give each word its normal meaning and you've got it: his love for Rosalita led to his death.

Erratum: the name of the Mexican girl he fell in love with was not Rosalita but Felina. The song title is El Paso and the lyrics are easy to find.

 

[sitifan]

There is no idiom and no mystery to it. Just give each word its normal meaning and you've got it: his love for Rosalita led to his death.
Erratum: the name of the Mexican girl he fell in love with was not Rosalita but Felina. The song title is El Paso and the lyrics are easy to find.

Why not use the past tense? He died for the love of [Felina].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Robbins

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

There is no idiom and no mystery to it. Just give each word its normal meaning and you've got it: his love for Rosalita led to his death.

Erratum: the name of the Mexican girl he fell in love with was not Rosalita but Felina. The song title is El Paso and the lyrics are easy to find.

Yup. I corrected it in post #17.

Rosalita is in "Deportee." Oh, well.