[Grammar] We need some rope to tie up the boat (with).

[kadioguy]

[From Oxford Student's Dictionary]

We need some rope to tie up the boat with.

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I was wondering about the "with".

a. We need some rope to tie up the boat. [My sentence]

b. We need some rope to tie up the boat with.

What is difference in meaning between them?

A friend told me, "(b) focuses on you needing the rope; (a) focuses more on tying the boat (not particularly focused on anything). But both talk about needing rope."

I agree with them. However, I would also like to hear your opinions.

 

[emsr2d2]

"with" is optional. I wouldn't use it.

"We need some rope to tie up the boat" is equivalent to "We need some rope in order to tie up the boat".
"We need some rope to tie up the boat with" is equivalent to "We need some rope with which to tie up the boat".

 

[emsr2d2]

I knew there was something niggling me about the sentence with "with". I've realised it's the word order at the end. Some native speakers (including me) would say:

"We need some rope to tie the boat up with". (Note the different position of "up".)

 

[Yankee]

I would go with your (a.) sentence. And as an "old (very old) schooler" I avoid ending sentences with a preposition. :roll:

 

[Tarheel]

Why?

 

[jutfrank]

And as an "old (very old) schooler" I avoid ending sentences with a preposition. :roll:

I wonder how you would get around sentences like these:

I found what I was looking for.
What are you worried about?
He doesn't know who he's talking to.

 

[Rover_KE]

Also:

Five excited puppies are too many to put up with.
A good bowl of chilli con carne should not be so hard to come by.

 

[SoothingDave]

I would go with your (a.) sentence. And as an "old (very old) schooler" I avoid ending sentences with a preposition. :roll:

Or, "We need some rope up with which to tie the boat." :lol:

 

[emsr2d2]

Everyone's favourite example of how that "rule" doesn't work: Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.

 

[5jj]

I lately lost a preposition
It hid, I thought, beneath my chair
And angrily I cried, "Perdition!
Up from out of in under there."

Correctness is my vade mecum,
And straggling phrases I abhor,
And yet I wondered, "What should he come
Up from out of in under for?"

Morris Bishop in the New Yorker, 27th September, 1947

 

[Yankee]

I wonder how you would get around sentences like these:

Please have a seat. :lol:

I found what I was looking for. I found for what I was looking.
What are you worried about? Why are you worried?
He doesn't know who he's talking to. He doesn't know to whom he is talking.

I am inclined to prefer the prescriptive rule in many expressions, but I must confess that I have often violated the rule.

 

[Tarheel]

"I found for what I was looking" makes no sense to me.

It makes no sense to substitute an awkward sentence for a natural one.

As far I'm concerned that "rule" doesn't exist.

 

[kadioguy]

"I found for what I was looking" makes no sense to me.

It makes no sense to substitute an awkward sentence for a natural one.

As far as I'm concerned that "rule" doesn't exist.

I think that you mean that. ;-)