Until recently

[Ashraful Haque]

A) I had no idea what an yacht is until recently. I just used to call them boats.
B) I had no idea who he was/is until recently.

Question 1.
Does 'until recently' need any more context? It sounds incomplete to me. I think it talks about a random time in the past.

Question 2.
For sentence B, do we use 'was' to talk about a deceased person and 'is' for someone who's still alive?

 

[emsr2d2]

A) I had no idea what an a yacht is was until recently. I just used to call them boats.
B) I had no idea who he was /is until recently.

Question
1. Does 'until recently' need any more context? It sounds incomplete to me. I think it talks about refers to a random time in the past.

Question
2. For sentence B, do we use 'was' to talk about a deceased person and 'is' for someone who's still alive?

Note my corrections above.

1. No, no more context is needed unless the listener/reader asks for it. It doesn't refer to a random time in the past. It refers to a recent time in the past.
2. We use "was" for a deceased person (never "is") but we use both "is" and "was" for a person who's alive, depending on context.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

2. We use "was" for a deceased person (never "is") but we use both "is" and "was" for a person who's alive, depending on context.

Please let me know if I've used 'is' and 'was' correctly.

1. I didn't know he is gay.
2. I didn't know he was gay. (until he had sex change surgery)

 

[emsr2d2]

Please let me know if I've used 'is' and 'was' correctly.

1. I didn't know he is gay.
2. I didn't know he was gay. (until he had sex change surgery)

#2 is much more natural. However, the part afterwards makes no sense. People who have sex change surgery is not related to their sexuality. Don't use that!

 

[Ashraful Haque]

#2 is much more natural. However, the part afterwards makes no sense. People who have sex change surgery is not related to their sexuality. Don't use that!

I should've included more context. Let me try again.

Talking about two different people here.
1. I didn't know Jack is gay. (The person is gay and has always been that way. He had no surgery or anything.)
Shouldn't we use 'is' since they're gay at the time of saying it?

2. I didn't know Tom was gay. (The person was gay, but they changed their sex to male.)
I don't think we can use 'is' since he's definitely not gay anymore.

 

[emsr2d2]

I still don't understand why you're trying to connect sex change (now called "gender realignment") surgery with sexuality (being straight/gay/bisexual etc). There is no connection. Your second example is particularly problematic in that regard. You're confusing two unrelated things. Your question is simply "Should I say 'I didn't know Tom is gay' or 'I didn't know Tom was gay'?" Both refer to Tom's current sexuality and, as I said before, the second is much more common for native speakers.
If you're trying to express something like "I didn't know Tom used to be gay", please don't.

 

[jutfrank]

Talking about two different people here.
1. I didn't know Jack is gay. (The person is gay and has always been that way. He had no surgery or anything.)
Shouldn't we use 'is' since they're gay at the time of saying it?

2. I didn't know Tom was gay. (The person was gay, but they changed their sex to male.)
I don't think we can use 'is' since he's definitely not gay anymore.

That's right but it's important to note that 2. remains ambiguous—it could mean that he's still gay and it could mean that he's no longer gay by implication, since you're making a point to say he was gay in the past. Since we don't have disambiguating context, the readier interpretation would be the former, which is not what you mean.

 

[jutfrank]

I still don't understand why you're trying to connect sex change (now called "gender realignment") surgery with sexuality (being straight/gay/bisexual etc). There is no connection.

Well, there's a definitive connection as long as gay simply means 'attracted to the same sex'. If a gay person changes their sex, then they're no longer gay, by that definition, provided their tastes didn't also change in the transition. That's what Ashraful Haque is thinking, anyway.

 

[emsr2d2]

Well, there's a definitive connection as long as gay simply means 'attracted to the same sex'. If a gay person changes their sex, then they're no longer gay, by that definition, provided their tastes didn't also change in the transition. That's what Ashraful Haque is thinking, anyway.

Yes, but I fear that the OP is suggesting that everyone who goes for gender realignment was gay to begin with. That's not the case. Heterosexual people change their sex too.

Here's an example (I've changed the names) - my friend Sarah grew up with a brother called Simon. Simon was heterosexual. At the age of about 30, Simon revealed that he had been cross-dressing (dressing in women's clothing) since he was a teenager. He decided that he wanted to start the process of gender realignment. During this period, he continued to date women. After ten years, he completed his surgery and legally changed his name legally to Nicola. So - Nicola of course now uses "she/her" pronouns, has no remnant of male genitalia, and is to all intents and purposes female. She continues to date women so I suppose she's now a lesbian. A heterosexual man has, by virtue of a sex change, become a gay woman.

I just want to ensure that the OP isn't suggesting that gay people change sex so that they can become straight!

 

[Ashraful Haque]

Thanks. I actually know what's going on in your part of the world even though it's not very common where I'm from. Thanks to the internet.
I also have a friend who's gay and we talk about gender and sex often. I know about the LGBTQ2+ community and all that.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

That's right but it's important to note that 2. remains ambiguous—it could mean that he's still gay and it could mean that he's no longer gay by implication, since you're making a point to say he was gay in the past. Since we don't have disambiguating context, the readier interpretation would be the former, which is not what you mean.

"I didn't know Tom was a doctor."

Are you saying that we can use 'was' even though he's still alive and not retired?
If so, when do we use 'is'?

 

[emsr2d2]

Thanks. I actually know what's going on in your part of the world even though it's not very common where I'm from. Thanks to the internet.
I also have a friend who's gay and we talk about gender and sex often. I know about the LGBTQ2+ community and all that.

I wasn't suggesting that you didn't know about the subject in general. It was just that you kept conflating sexuality and gender realignment.