To treat someone to something vs To give something to someone

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Alexey86

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Hi, everyone! Why does the preposition in "to treat someone to something" stand before the direct object and not before the indirect one, as it is in the case of "to give something to someone"? Both verbs are close in meaning in these structures, but it would sound illogical if I say, "I gave him to an apple", since to is a preposition of direction.
 
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You've got the analysis wrong.

1) In to treat someone to something, something is not the direct object of the verb. The direct object of the verb treat is someone, and something is the object of the preposition to.

2) In to give something to someone, the direct object of the verb give is something.

3) It is not the case that the verbs are close in meaning. It is rather that the patterns give something to someone and give someone something have the same meaning.

4) You are right that I gave him to an apple is wrong but the reason is not related to the fact that the preposition has a sense of direction. The reason it is wrong is because it doesn't follow the correct pattern.
 
Thank you, jutfrank. I understand that "something" in "to treat..." is syntactically the object of the preposition. It puzzles me from the point of view of semantics. According to the dictionary (https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/treat+(someone+or+oneself)+to+(something)) this pattern means to provide someone with food, gifts, etc. When I treat my friend to an apple, I give an apple to them, in fact. So, semantically and logically my friend is still the beneficiary of my action, and the apple is the object over which I directly perform the action. If so, why does "my friend" become the direct object in the "to treat..." pattern?
 
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This is quite a hard question to answer fully, so let me try to break it down as I see it, step by step.

1) You are right to think about this in terms of semantics. I don't think trying to analyse syntactics is going to help you much. Furthermore, I don't think a grammatical analysis is even particularly relevant, though it is of course tied to the semantics.

2) It seems to me that the problem here is your understanding of the meaning of treat someone to something. In your mind, it seems that the meaning of treat someone to something is the same as give something to someone and give someone something. Although they are similar in some ways, they are not exactly the same. The dictionary definition is not helping you in this regard. The problem with the dictionary definition is that it is incomplete.

You are right that in both patterns, there is a performer and a beneficiary. However, it is the precise nature of this relationship that differs. Let's now look at the difference in detail.

GIVE

The core sense of the verb give is that there is an exchange of an object from the performer to the beneficiary. In terms of semantics, give is what is called a three-place predicate. That means that there must necessarily be three parties (or 'arguments') involved. These three arguments have the following semantic roles:

1) agent (the 'giver' or what you referred to above as the performer)
2) recipient (the 'givee' or what you referred to as the beneficiary)
3) patient (the 'given' or the object that goes from/to.)


TREAT

The verb treat is different in two main ways.

Firstly, unlike give, there is not necessarily (although there may well be) an exchange 'from/to'. Look at this example:

For your birthday, I'll treat you to a day at a health spa.

In this example, I'm not really 'giving' you anything in a literal sense. I know it seems like the day at the health spa is a gift (it is) and that you are the beneficiary of my action (you are) but there is no literal exchange of the health spa from one place to another. We commonly use treat somebody to something in this way: to mean that we pay money to allow somebody to benefit. In your sentence I gave him an apple, we understand that there was an exchange (what I'd call a 'transaction') taking place. In the sentence I treated him to an apple, there is no such transaction. Out of context, the most likely interpretation is that I merely paid in some way for the apple, from which he benefited.

Secondly, in terms of semantics, treat is only a two-place predicate (agent and patient only). This is where the grammar ties in, and is precisely why you cannot say *treat somebody something, using an indirect object. The fact that treat is only a two-place, not a three-place predicate, means two things:

1) It is therefore not necessary (although it is usual) to mention the thing that the benefiter benefits from. (You can just say I'll treat you without mentioning 'what', whereas you cannot say *I'll give you.)

2) In terms of semantics, in the sentence I treated him to an apple, him is the patient. This is very different from the sentence I gave him an apple, where him is the recipient.
 
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Wow! Thank you for such a detailed answer, jutfrank! You've given me a lot to think about.

What would be the role of the beneficiary on those rare occasions when "to treat somebody to something" means to provide with food in a literal sense? Would she/he be the patient or the recipient?
 
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Who would be the beneficiary on those rare occasions when "to treat somebody to something" means to provide with food in a literal sense? Would she/he be the patient or the recipient?

Don't confuse the world with language about the world.

To answer your question in terms of semantics (which is always about language), you'll have to give me an example sentence to analyse, showing the sense that you mean. The notion of semantic roles makes sense only when applied to particular uses of language.

In the real world, the beneficiary would be the person who eats the food, of course!
 
What would be the role of the beneficiary on those rare occasions when "to treat somebody to something" means to provide with food in a literal sense?

I've read again dictionary definitions, your and Piscean's replies, and now I see that I got it wrong. There are no such occasions when the "to treat..." pattern is used to convey the literal meaning of a physical exchange or action of giving something to someone. I think my misunderstanding is rooted in some features of my native language (Russian). When translated into Russian, the "treat..." structure would always include "someone" as the recipient/indirect object and "something" as the patient/direct object. I cannot think of any exceptions, anyway.
 
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I can give my friend an apple, but I can't *treat him an apple.
I can give an apple to my friend, but I can't *treat an apple to my friend.

You can also say that an apple was given to your friend, but you can't say that [strike]an apple was treated to your friend[/strike].
 
Your friend was given an apple.
An apple was given to your friend.

Your friend was treated to an apple.
[STRIKE]An apple was treated to your friend. [/STRIKE]
 
One thing is still not clear to me. If "something" in "to treat someone to something" is a means of treating, why is "to" used here and not "with"? "I treated her to lunch" is correct, but "I treated her with lunch" is not. Is it because "treat with something" means something different, i.e. to handle or to deal with someone with a particular type of attitude (https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/treat+with)?
 
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