'To begin with' or 'In the first place'

[Ashraful Haque]

I was talking with a guys online. He said that his country never closed the border for tourists. I was surprised and said:
"Your government didn't close the border to begin with?"

I'm not sure if 'to begin with' fits the sentence. I want to know the difference between and how to use 'to begin with' and 'in the first place.'
Thank you so much.

 

[emsr2d2]

I was talking with a [STRIKE]guys[/STRIKE] guy online. He said that his country never closed the border [STRIKE]for[/STRIKE] to tourists. I was surprised and said:
"Your government didn't close the border to begin with?"

I'm not sure if 'to begin with' fits the sentence. I want to know the difference between and how to use 'to begin with' and 'in the first place.'
Thank you so much.

Neither of your options fits the context. Say "Didn't your government close the border right at the start/beginning?" Note the correct construction of a question. Your original is simply a statement with a question mark at the end.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

Neither of your options fits the context. Say "Didn't your government close the border right at the start/beginning?" Note the correct construction of a question. Your original is simply a statement with a question mark at the end.

I see. But it wasn't actually a question. Like I said I was surprised and I said "What! Your government didn't close the border to begin with?"

Even if my previous sentence was wrong, I still want to know the difference between 'to begin with' and 'in the first place.'

 

[Jemima23]

Not a teacher.

I think those two can be synonymous in some cases, but that depends on the context.

 

[5jj]

. Say "Didn't your government close the border right at the start/beginning?" Note the correct construction of a question. Your original is simply a statement with a question mark at the end.

I think that that construction is natural enough in that context.

However, Ashraful Haque, if you did not mean it as a question, then you should not have put a question mark at the end.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

Not a teacher.

I think those two can be synonymous in some cases, but that depends on the context.

Could you give me a few examples where they are synonymous and where not?

 

[jutfrank]

Sometimes to begin with is synonymous with in the first place and sometimes to begin with is used at the beginning of a sentence to say where you're going to start, or which thing among a set of things you want to deal with first.

To begin with, let's have a look at last week's lesson.

 

[99bottles]

Neither of your options fits the context. Say "Didn't your government close the border right at the start/beginning?" Note the correct construction of a question. Your original is simply a statement with a question mark at the end.

Sorry for interjecting in another person's thread, but I thought it was IN the beginning and AT the beginning of something. Have I got it wrong?

 

[jutfrank]

I thought it was IN the beginning and AT the beginning of something. Have I got it wrong?

Not wrong, but perhaps a bit oversimplified.

In emsr2d2's suggestion, there is an implied 'of-phrase'.

 

[99bottles]

Not wrong, but perhaps a bit oversimplified.

In emsr2d2's suggestion, there is an implied 'of-phrase'.

So, we use in the beginning when no such thing is implied? Can you please (if this does not derail this thread too much) give me an example?

 

[jutfrank]

So, we use in the beginning when no such thing is implied? Can you please (if this does not derail this thread too much) give me an example?

My explanation of the differences between in the beginning and at the beginning is quite long and detailed, so I think it's better if you start a new thread or add to an existing one. Alternatively, have a web search—I'm sure there's plenty that has been said on the topic.

 

[Skrej]

Could you give me a few examples where they are synonymous and where not?

-synonymous with 'in the first place:
Why didn't you say that to begin with?
You're right, I should have tried that to begin with.

-non-synonymous
To begin with, I haven't even spoken to him in over a week. Secondly, I simply forgot I was supposed to keep him updated.
To begin with, your argument is invalid because because it's based on incorrect information. It's also missing the complete reference.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

Sometimes to begin with is synonymous with in the first place and sometimes to begin with is used at the beginning of a sentence to say where you're going to start, or which thing among a set of things you want to deal with first.

To begin with, let's have a look at last week's lesson.

I'm guessing it's the same as saying "Let's start off by looking at last week's lesson."

 

[Ashraful Haque]

-synonymous with 'in the first place:
Why didn't you say that to begin with?
You're right, I should have tried that to begin with.

-non-synonymous
To begin with, I haven't even spoken to him in over a week. Secondly, I simply forgot I was supposed to keep him updated.
To begin with, your argument is invalid because because it's based on incorrect information. It's also missing the complete reference.

I think 'in the first place' fits my context. Since the government didn't close the border for tourists, it was hit by the virus.
Can I say "Why didn't your government close the border in the first place?"

 

[Tdol]

I think you can use in the first place in your last two examples.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

I think you can use in the first place in your last two examples.

"Coronavirus wouldn't exist in the first place if everyone were vegetarian."
Does this sound natural?

 

[emsr2d2]

It would be more natural as "Coronavirus wouldn't have come into existence in the first place ...". As we are now beyond "the first place" (the first time Covid-19 was identified), it fits better with a past tense than a present tense.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

It would be more natural as "Coronavirus wouldn't have come into existence in the first place ...". As we are now beyond "the first place" (the first time Covid-19 was identified), it fits better with a past tense than a present tense.

But I heard the sentence from a native American speaker. He said "Coronavirus wouldn't exist if everyone were......." I just added 'in the first place' here.

 

[5jj]

I hear sentences that are less than perfect every day from native speakers. We try here to tell you the best and most natural way to say/write things.

 

[emsr2d2]

But I heard the sentence from a native American speaker. He said "Coronavirus wouldn't exist if everyone were......." I just added 'in the first place' here.

There's nothing wrong with the original sentence. You made it wrong by adding "in the first place"!