[General] Thereafter they did not speak

[Silverobama]

Hi.

I was writing a letter telling my friend the things about A and B. A and B were friends but something had happened and they didn't speak anymore. I wrote "Thereafter they did not speak" after "One day something happened to them".

I wonder if the italic sentence is natural.

 

[teechar]

I was writing a letter [STRIKE]telling[/STRIKE] to my friend [STRIKE]the things[/STRIKE] about [STRIKE]A and B. A and B[/STRIKE] two people who were friends but who had stopped talking to each other after something had happened. [STRIKE]and they didn't speak anymore.[/STRIKE] I wrote "Thereafter, they did not speak" after "One day something happened to them".

I wonder if the italic sentence is natural.

It's rather formal. How about this?
One day something happened to them, and they never spoke to each other after that.

 

[Silverobama]

I'll write down the alternative in my notebook, teechar.

It's rather formal but it's natural and correct. Am I right? I was writing a letter and I thought I needed to be formal.

 

[emsr2d2]

I was writing a letter telling my friend

I was writing a letter and I thought I needed to be formal.

The underlined part is relevant. It doesn't matter whether you're communicating with a friend by text, phone, email, letter or in person. There's no need to be formal with your mates!

 

[teechar]

It's rather formal but it's natural and correct. Am I right?

Well, that depends. I mean, we don't ordinarily write formal letters to friends.
But yes, what you wrote is grammatical and possible.

I was writing a letter and I thought it needed to be formal.

See above.
[cross-posted]

 

[Tdol]

It works if you want to be formal, but I wouldn't use it in a letter to a friend.

 

[tedmc]

It works if you want to be formal, but I wouldn't use it in a letter to a friend.

It depends on where you are and the culture. Being formal between friends may be frowned upon in western countries but not in Asia.

 

[teechar]

Being formal between friends may be frowned upon in Western countries but not in Asia.

Really? Asia is a big place. Can one really make such a sweeping statement?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I'll write down the alternative in my notebook, teechar.

It's rather formal but it's natural and correct. Am I right? I was writing a letter and I thought I needed to be formal.

It's not a matter of formality. We simply don't often use thereafter in writing or conversation. It's outdated. We usually use after that. (Or subsequently, if you want to show off.)

I've read thereafter in books written a long time ago, but I don't recall ever hearing it in conversation. My advice: Don't use it.

 

[tedmc]

Really? Asia is a big place. Can one really make such a sweeping statement?

I am sure you are aware that the English used in Asia has its peculiarities and generally tend to be more formal than that of Westerners. Do these phrases which come from Asian forummers look familiar to you?

- please kindly..
- thank you in advance
- herewith, hereby (especially in the Writing and Editing section)
- Silver's posts which have the tendency to use flowery phrases instead of simpler language.
- tufguy's posts which tend to use more words than necessary

I know it is not good to generalise but I think my statement is fair, based on my observations having lived in Asia and a Western country.

Probus would be able to confirm this as his wife is Asian. Also, a number of teachers here who have experience teaching English in Asian countries would be able to comment.

 

[emsr2d2]

I understand all of that but the native speakers here try to teach learners how to speak English as native speakers do. Just because someone in Asia might use the equivalent of "Please kindly" in their own language doesn't mean that we should encourage them to translate that directly and use "Please kindly" in English.
Silver might write that letter in a formal manner to a friend in Chinese but he/she wants to know how to naturally word it in English, and that's what we're trying to explain. For my part, I generally assume that learners here are aiming, in the long term, to be able to communicate effectively with native speakers. If that's the case, they need to know that such formality amongst friends, family and general work acquaintances is not natural.

 

[Silverobama]

I understand all of that but the native speakers here try to teach learners how to speak English as native speakers do.

:up:.

Silver might write that letter in a formal manner to a friend in Chinese but he/she wants to know how to naturally word it in English, and that's what we're trying to explain.

No, in English. But I still think that you're right. I already deleted some sentences with words like "thereafter, notwithstanding, nevertheless, whereby, wherein, etc.,".

If that's the case, they need to know that such formality amongst friends, family and general work acquaintances is not natural.

If I wrote a personal statement and the letter would be sent to the principal of a university in the UK. I'd write in a formal manner.

 

[emsr2d2]

No, in English. But I still think that you're right. I already deleted some sentences with words like "thereafter, notwithstanding, nevertheless, whereby, wherein, etc.,".

I think you misunderstood my point. I meant that I understand that if you wrote that letter to your friend in your native language, such formality would be natural. If you and your friend choose to write to each other in English in order to practise your use of the language, you should try to use English that would be natural to native speakers.

 

[Silverobama]

I think you misunderstood my point. I meant that I understand that if you wrote that letter to your friend in your native language, such formality would be natural. If you and your friend choose to write to each other in English in order to practise your use of the language, you should try to use English that would be natural to native speakers.

I can't agree more.

 

[tedmc]

I understand all of that but the native speakers here try to teach learners how to speak English as native speakers do. Just because someone in Asia might use the equivalent of "Please kindly" in their own language doesn't mean that we should encourage them to translate that directly and use "Please kindly" in English.
Silver might write that letter in a formal manner to a friend in Chinese but he/she wants to know how to naturally word it in English, and that's what we're trying to explain. For my part, I generally assume that learners here are aiming, in the long term, to be able to communicate effectively with native speakers. If that's the case, they need to know that such formality amongst friends, family and general work acquaintances is not natural.

No, I am not saying that the non-standard form of English should be encouraged; I was merely saying that the local versions of the language exist and are commonly practised. Being overly formal may be strange to a native speaker but is a norm locally, like a culture, which is hard to change. It is only when the locals get to interact with native speakers that the disparity becomes obvious.

 

[teechar]

Being formal between friends may be frowned upon in Western countries but not in Asia.

I must also point out that in many countries (Western and otherwise), people may find such formality odd, unusual or even funny; they wouldn't "frown upon" it.

 

[tedmc]

Yes, "frown upon" is a bit strong a word for that.

 

[emsr2d2]

Yes, "frown upon" is a bit too strong a [STRIKE]word[/STRIKE] verb/phrase for that.

I don't think it's a question of strength of phrase. It's a question of meaning. We wouldn't disapprove (which is what "frown upon" means) of someone being overly formal. As has already been noted, we might find it bizarre, odd, unusual, puzzling or even funny.