[General] Pronunciations of "white" and "thought"

[holdenenglish]

Teachers


In the following video, is the speaker a native English speaker? Is it true that he pronounces "white" as /haɪt/, and "thought" like /tɑːt/

https://youtu.be/_ZylP8I8sPI?t=38

Holden

 

[jutfrank]

Yes, he's Irish. He speaks using the features of an Irish accent. I can't pin it down more precisely than that.

You can hear for yourself how he pronounces those words at 0:40 seconds.

He begins the word white with a /h/ sound before the /w/.
The first consonant of thought is somewhere between a /t/ and a 'th' sound.
The vowels are also characteristic of his specific accent.

(Sorry, I can't get my phonemic keyboard to work.)

 

[holdenenglish]

Yes, he's Irish. He speaks using the features of an Irish accent. I can't pin it down more precisely than that.

You can hear for yourself how he pronounces those words at 0:40 seconds.

He begins the word white with a /h/ sound before the /w/.
The first consonant of thought is somewhere between a /t/ and a 'th' sound.
The vowels are also characteristic of his specific accent.

(Sorry, I can't get my phonemic keyboard to work.)

Thanks. When you say he has an Irish accent, does it mean that it's also possible for a native-English speaker using the features of a Chinese accent?

Cheers

Holden

 

[GoesStation]

Thanks. When you say he has an Irish accent, does it mean that it's also possible for a native-English speaker using the features of a Chinese accent?

Can you express this with different words? I don't understand the question.

 

[probus]

I don't think he says /haɪt/ as the OP asked. I would render it as /hwaɪt/. As jutfrank said:

He begins the word white with a /h/ sound before the /w/.

When I started elementary school in 1952 my teacher was adamant that the only correct way to pronounce white was with the initial h. But I suspect he was fighting a rearguard action even back then. for I have rarely if ever heard it since. "Wite" has served just fine.

 

[GoesStation]

In my region many people pronounce "wh" as /hw/. It's alive and strong.

 

[holdenenglish]

Can you express this with different words? I don't understand the question.

Sorry for the unclear question. I meant based on the view that the speaker is a native-English speaker despite the features of an Irish accent (influence of Gaelic?), is it also possible that a speaker can be regarded as a native-English speaker despite having a Chinese accent?

Cheers

Holden

 

[jutfrank]

Sorry for the unclear question. I meant based on the view that the speaker is a native-English speaker despite the features of an Irish accent (influence of Gaelic?), is it also possible that a speaker can be regarded as a native-English speaker despite having a Chinese accent?

The short and simple answer is: no*.

If somebody speaks with a Chinese accent, this is because his native tongue (or 'first language') is Chinese. Either that or he has acquired an extremely rare case of speech disorder. And if somebody is born into an English-speaking environment, they will invariably end up speaking in a way that is typical of the wider speech community. For example, if you are Chinese and you are born in the UK, you will end up speaking English as a native speaker, even if your parents only ever talk to you in Chinese. Unless they keep you locked up in the cupboard under the stairs and never let you hear any English.

Are you assuming that Irish people speak English as a second language, after Irish Gaelic? This is the case for only a minority of Irish people. The majority speak English as a first language. Many also have Irish as an additional language, but many others do not.



*I believe this may be controversial to some linguists, but we needn't go into that here.

 

[GoesStation]

Sorry for the unclear question. I meant based on the view that the speaker is a native-English speaker despite the features of an Irish accent (influence of Gaelic?), is it also possible that a speaker can be regarded as a native-English speaker despite having a Chinese accent?

In an interesting coincidence, just yesterday I heard a Chinese-American woman giving a talk on the radio. I don't know whether she was born in the United States or China, but she spoke English with native fluency. Her English had clear traces of Chinese influence on her pronunciation. Just as the Irish accent developed partly because of Gaelic influence, there is a Chinese-American accent with recognizable Chinese influence.

Native speakers who grow up in a Chinese immigrant community are liable to speak with this accent.

 

[jutfrank]

is it also possible that a speaker can be regarded as a native-English speaker despite having a Chinese accent?

The term 'native speaker' can be used to refer to different concepts. The answer I gave in post #8 is based on what I think is quite a common, everyday notion of what it means to consider someone a native speaker. This may not be a notion shared by professional linguists.

So to answer your question precisely, you will have to tell us what you mean exactly.

 

[probus]

GoesStation wrote:

she spoke English with native fluency. Her English had clear traces of Chinese influence on her pronunciation.

As I have previously pointed out this is commonplace where I live, in the Toronto area. Those of us who live in areas where the population is extremely diverse are forced eventually to broaden slightly our definition of "native speaker." Comedian Russell Peters sometimes expoits this fact in his material.

 

[Skrej]

Bob Ross's pronunciation of 'hwite' has taken on internet fame. You can hear him here.

I don't do Facebook, so I can't see what's on it, but there's even a Bob Ross Titanium Hwite page.....

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

In my region many people pronounce "wh" as /hw/. It's alive and strong.

Yes. My mom was from Vermont, and she pronounced it that way, too.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Thanks. When you say he has an Irish accent, does it mean that it's also possible for a native English speaker using the features of a Chinese accent?

Your question seems unfinished: Is it possible for a native-English speaker using the features of a Chinese accent to do what?

Does "using the features of a Chinese accent" mean speaking with a Chinese accent? That doesn't make sense, because native English speakers don't have Chinese accents. We have English-language accents that reflect where we grew up, our social class, and our ethnicity.

Are you asking whether a native English speaker can imitate a Chinese accent? Yes, we can, but usually badly and often embarassingly.

The person in the recording is a native English speaker. He has an Irish accent because he grew up in Ireland, which has two languages: Irish (also called Gaelic) and English.

 

[jutfrank]

Bob Ross's pronunciation of 'hwite' has taken on internet fame. You can hear him here.

He also says 'hwen' and 'hwere'.

Hwere is Bob Ross's accent from exactly? Is it typical of that region?

 

[GoesStation]

He also says 'hwen' and 'hwere'.

Hwere is Bob Ross's accent from exactly? Is it typical of that region?

Imdb.com tells me he's from Daytona Beach, Florida, which is midway up Florida's Atlantic coast. I'm afraid I don't know much about the local accent, but when I listened to a bit of the video, he sounded like he could have grown up across the street from me in southwest Ohio. His pronunciation of "white" just sounded normal to me, meaning he probably aspirated the /wh/ phoneme as many people around here do. This applies to all instances of /wh/ except for the word "who".

The aspirated /wh/ is typical of Appalachian and southeastern US pronunciation.

 

[jutfrank]

Imdb.com tells me he's from Daytona Beach, Florida, which is midway up Florida's Atlantic coast.

His accent sounds quite strong to me.

I've never known how to identify a Floridan accent. Georgia and Alabama I can recognise fairly well now (I think), but not Florida.

I wonder if any members here are able to make a distinction between a Floridan and, say, a Georgian or Mississippi (Mississippian?) accent . If not Bob Ross, can anyone think of a famous person I might know who speaks with a strong, typically Floridan accent?

 

[GoesStation]

His accent sounds quite strong to me.

I've never known how to identify a Floridan accent. Georgia and Alabama I can recognise fairly well now (I think), but not Florida.

I wonder if any members here are able to make a distinction between a Floridan and, say, a Georgian or Mississippi (Mississippian?) accent . If not Bob Ross, can anyone think of a famous person I might know who speaks with a strong, typically Floridan accent?

I think there isn't a good answer to this question because Florida has so many accent regions and so many immigrants, both from other states and from abroad.

A friend of mine grew up living in Florida during the school year and summering in Connecticut, where her family ran one of the last of the old Jewish summer resorts. Despite attending public school and spending three quarters of her childhood in Florida, she has a pronounced New York/Connecticut accent. There isn't a trace of the American South in her speech.

 

[Skrej]

Stewie's (the talking baby)pronunciation of 'hwip' has been a running gag on Family Guy for ages. Here's one such clip.

And another compilation.

 

[emsr2d2]

My late grandfather and my mother (both from the Home Counties, UK) said/say "hw" for "wh". It has not continued into my generation.