playing video games in/on winter evenings.

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Ashraful Haque

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"I don't think I'll ever get tired of sipping a cup of hot coffee while playing video games in winter evenings."


Someone told me that it should be 'on winter evenings' because in this case we use the same rule as with date. I didn't quite get why.
 
You might want to note this down somewhere:

"at" for times:
I eat breakfast at 8am.
The train leaves at 6.52pm.

"on" for days:
I play tennis on Tuesdays.
We're going to Spain on Friday.

"in" for specific times of day:
I watch TV in the evening.
We need to get up early in the morning.

"on" for times of day with extra information (and for habitual actions):
We play cards on long winter evenings.
The sun rises early on summer mornings.
(However, note that the first could be expressed as "We play cards in the evenings in winter", and the second as "The sun rises early in the morning in summer".)

"in" for months, years, decades and centuries:
I was born in September.
He died in 2012.
I was a huge music fan in the 80s.
It was written in the 19th century.
 
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Actually I know all these prepositions and this is exactly why I got confused in the first place. As you can see my original sentence was 'in winter evenings.' And it was because I've always used 'in' with seasons.

Anyway, I think I understand why we use 'on' in this case. When we say summer nights, sunny afternoons, windy nights, etc we have to use 'on.' I need think them as days. Am I right?
 
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Actually I know all these prepositions and this is exactly why I got confused in the first place. As you can see my original sentence was 'in winter evenings.' And it was because I've always used 'in' with seasons.

But in winter evenings, winter is an adjective modifying evenings. So you need a preposition that goes with evenings, right?


Anyway, I think I understand why we use 'on' in this case. When we say summer nights, sunny afternoons, windy nights, etc we have to use 'on.' I need think them as days. Am I right?

Just ignore the adjectives—summer, sunny, and so on. The prepositions introduce the nouns.
Easy!
 
I'm sorry but isn't the preposition for evening 'in'? Don't we say 'in the evening,' 'at night,' etc?

It is in the phrase you use, but there are other cases where things are different. We say at night, but we say on the night I was born.
 
I'm sorry but isn't the preposition for evening 'in'? Don't we say 'in the evening,' 'at night,' etc?
Yes, but emsr2d2 told you to say "We play cards on long winter evenings".
 
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It is in the phrase you use, but there are other cases where things are different. We say at night, but we say on the night I was born.
On the night I was born? Why 'on'? :-(
 
Because it is.

There is unfortunately little logic or system in the way in which prepositions are used in English - or in many other languages.
For this sentence can I just drop the 'on' and say "The night I was born, it was....."?
 
In colloquial BrE, you can.
 
Not a teacher
------


On the night I was born? Why 'on'? :-(
A night is still a "day", for instance a Thursday, just a bit darker.

It depends on whether you're referring to what time it is, or what day it is.

"I was born on Thursday at night, and on the night I was born, it was raining."

There's also "in the night" in some contexts, but I don't know if I should even mention it. ;-)
 
On the night I was born? Why 'on'? :-(

Could it be that we are talking about one specific night rather than nights in general? Meaning often doesn't conform to universal patterns. The night I was born is not the same as going to the pub most nights.
 
Anyway, I think I understand why we use 'on' in this case. When we say summer nights, sunny afternoons, windy nights, etc we have to use 'on.' I need think them as days. Am I right?

Basically, yes.

On the night I was born? Why 'on'? :-(

Despite what some members seem to think, there's almost always a 'logical' reason to choose one preposition over another. The trick is to understand the basic meaning that each preposition expresses. This meaning comes from the way the mind of the speaker views the spatial relationship expressed by the thought.

When using prepositions of time such as in and on, we still have spatial structures in mind. That means that we view time as if it were space, where bits of time are seen as things like objects, frames, points, etc.

In the case in question, you're right to say that on winter evenings is a bit like saying on Tuesdays because the mind is thinking about the prepositional object in a similar way—in this case winter evenings are seen as a 'block' of time, (on which an action or event can be placed) rather than as a 'sweep' of time (in which an action or event can be framed). Very basically and simply speaking, we use on for blocks of time and in for sweeps of time.

Another useful point to make here is that when a speaker wants to specify a time phrase, on is the preferred preposition.

In the evening, I was playing video games.
On Tuesday evening, I was playing video games.


In the latter sentence, the evening is specified in some way. This is also the case with your example of winter evenings. A good explanation for the difference here is that the specification creates sufficient distance of viewpoint that a sweep of time resembles a block.
 
:roll:

I think I'll stick with myThere is unfortunately little logic or system in the way in which prepositions are used in English.

I think, and have long thought, that it's a shame so many members of the forum tend to share your view. I really think the truth of the matter is quite the contrary. I'd say that very rarely is the use of a preposition determined only by convention. The rest of the time it can be explained very well by understanding the central meaning(s) of the preposition in question.

The quoted explanation I've given above, along with the terms used, is taken from Seth Lindstromberg's superlative English Prepositions Explained, which I can't recommend highly enough to teachers or to anybody else who is routinely faced with answering dreaded questions about usage of prepositions. For those who are interested further in how the kind of distance he refers to distorts our view of the mental structures that form our thoughts, I'm happy to take the subject up with more detail and clearer illustration.
 
For those who are interested further in how the kind of distance he refers to distorts our view of the mental structures that form our thoughts, I'm happy to take the subject up with more detail and clearer illustration.
I'll be interested to follow the discussion, but I suggest it take place in a new thread in the General Language forum.
 
Sorry, jutfrank, but Ireally can't take seriously such arguments as [...]

Well, perhaps you ought to try. I was being perfectly serious when I made it, so I'm sorry you feel that way.

If people don't accept my explanations because I haven't made them clearly, then that's my fault and I should like to try again. But if people don't accept my explanations because they think they have no merit, then that's up to them.

I'd like to hear a better explanation for the use of on here, that doesn't revolve around merely saying 'That's just how it is, so don't look any further.' Although this response can often be an appropriate thing to say to a learner, it can often show a lack of understanding of deeper principles, which I thought the OP may have been asking about. I have spent not an inconsiderable part of my life over several years researching and writing about the use and meaning of prepositions, and I think it is fitting that I contribute what I have learnt to the forum. I shall endeavour to improve the way I explain the thoughts of both myself and others, especially on this matter.
 
We should discuss this, and we should be able to keep things civil, in a separate thread in the General Language forum.
 
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