naweewra
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
- Member Type
- Student or Learner
- Native Language
- Thai
- Home Country
- Thailand
- Current Location
- Thailand
Hello,
I thought I had made peace with the past perfect and then I found these sentences. They completely threw me off.
a) He ordered us back to work before we had finished our meal.
I don't have a problem with the meaning of the sentence. I understand it. To me, 'We were eating. > He ordered us back to work. > We didn't finished our meal' What is nagging me is the logic behind it. Compare it with:
b) I didn't know/hadn't known about onsens before I came to Japan.
= didn't know > came to Japan
Should the phrase after "before" be in the past simple?
I have read on another web board that the "non-completion" nature of "finishing our meal" made it possible to use the past perfect in sentences like a). Maybe it is similar to the use of the past perfect here?
c) We had hoped to take pictures from the cable car, but it rained so hard we couldn't see anything.
To make things worse (for me), I found this sentence in a grammar book.
d) He went out before I had finished my sentence.
The only comment made by the author is "Note that sentences like the last, a past perfect tense can refer to a time later than the action of the main verb. This is unusual." That didn't help me much at all.
And last but not least:
e) I waited until it had stopped raining.
I personally would say:
f) I waited until it stopped raining.
My question is "Is there a difference between e) and f)?" And in what context would e) be preferred?
Please help me understand.
Thank you.
Nawee
I thought I had made peace with the past perfect and then I found these sentences. They completely threw me off.
a) He ordered us back to work before we had finished our meal.
I don't have a problem with the meaning of the sentence. I understand it. To me, 'We were eating. > He ordered us back to work. > We didn't finished our meal' What is nagging me is the logic behind it. Compare it with:
b) I didn't know/hadn't known about onsens before I came to Japan.
= didn't know > came to Japan
Should the phrase after "before" be in the past simple?
I have read on another web board that the "non-completion" nature of "finishing our meal" made it possible to use the past perfect in sentences like a). Maybe it is similar to the use of the past perfect here?
c) We had hoped to take pictures from the cable car, but it rained so hard we couldn't see anything.
To make things worse (for me), I found this sentence in a grammar book.
d) He went out before I had finished my sentence.
The only comment made by the author is "Note that sentences like the last, a past perfect tense can refer to a time later than the action of the main verb. This is unusual." That didn't help me much at all.
And last but not least:
e) I waited until it had stopped raining.
I personally would say:
f) I waited until it stopped raining.
My question is "Is there a difference between e) and f)?" And in what context would e) be preferred?
Please help me understand.
Thank you.
Nawee