Japan or Indonesia without article

[keannu]

Source : Grammar Zone Basics, 87p

Zero Article Cases
....
e. in England/Canada/Egypt/Vietnam : Before the name of countries
cf2. the United States of America/the Philippines/the United Kingdom : "the" is placed before them when a country is composed of multiple islands or states.

==============================
For cf2, what about Japan or Indonesia, which are also composed of big islands or multiple ones?
Are these exceptions or are there any rules that I'm not aware of?

 

[Tarheel]

It's true that Japan is composed of a group of islands, but we don't say the Japans. It is simply Japan.

Is there some confusion about this?

 

[keannu]

The article rule of including "the" for countries names seems to be a little bit inconsistent, excluding many countries with big islands or many small ones.
I'm not for or against specific countries for this naming rule. I'm just curious about what this rule is based on or what affected the irregular results.

 

[Rover_KE]

There's no point looking for a 'rule'. There isn't one.

 

[jutfrank]

You've completely and fundamentally misunderstood the 'rule', and what it is trying to do.

Whether you use the depends on the name of the country, not on the geographical make-up of the country.

It is basically this: If a geographical area (not just a country) includes in its name what is normally considered a common noun, use the to refer to it in speech.

The United Kingdom
The United States
The Sandwich Islands
The Democratic Republic of the Congo
The Pacific Ocean
The Black Mountains

In formal written use, the article is often not used at all before the names of countries.

 

[GoesStation]

There used to be a number of countries that took the definite article for no apparent reason, including the Lebanon. Only the Gambia seems to remain; the country in the Levant is now known simply as Lebanon.

 

[bubbha]

Previously, "the" was added to "Ukraine" and "Sudan". You may sometimes still see it.

Officially, Gambia has "the" attached to it, because technically it refers to the Gambia river: the Republic of the Gambia.

When a country's name is plural, grammatical rules dictate that it should be preceded by "the": the Philippines, the United States, the United Arab Emirates. However, "the Solomon Islands" dropped "the" from its name in 1978. The Maldives is officially "the Republic of Maldives"; however, most people call it "the Maldives". And there is also Seychelles, which people commonly but unofficially call "the Seychelles".

As for the official name of country (e.g., "the People's Republic of Bangladesh"; "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"), it's generally preceded by "the", especially if the name contains the word "of". This goes with abbreviations too: compare "the DPRK" with "North Korea".

Overall, this is something that should be learned on a case-by-case basis, since there are no hard-and-fast rules, and exceptions abound.

 

[Tdol]

The Ukraine dates back to before its independence, and seems to be in decline in usage- when it became independent, it probably was used mostly with the article. I must say, I had forgotten about Sudan as an example of this as the article seems to have been largely dropped, a process probably accelerated by the independence of South Sudan.

 

[teechar]

Only the Gambia seems to remain

How about the Netherlands?

 

[jutfrank]

How about the Netherlands?

You can easily understand the 'lands' part as a common noun (the 'nether' lands). If so, the normal rules apply.

There's also Congo or the Congo. There, Congo seems to refer to the heavily forested region so associated with that county, so again the normal rules apply.

 

[teechar]

I knew that!
It's really arbitrary, however. I mean why don't New Zealand, England, or Poland have "the" as part of the name? You can equally argue that Poland means the land of the Poles.

 

[GoesStation]

How about the Netherlands?

Because its name means "the Low Lands", I wouldn't consider the Netherlands one of the "countries that take the definite article for no apparent reason".

 

[teechar]

Then how about my question in post #13?

 

[jutfrank]

Then how about my question in post #13?

Quite honestly, I don't know. But I have given it a bit of thought.

I wonder if it's to do with the fact that it doesn't/didn't work to say the Pole land (or its Old English equivalent) because the word Pole for whatever reason does not fit in that position as an attributive. (The adjective nether can, of course.) Do you think that might be why you rephrased it to the land of the Poles in your post, rather than the Pole land?

I clearly have little idea, but there must be some reason, right?

 

[teechar]

You might well be right. However, how about "Thai"? That can be used attributively, and yet we do not have "the Thailand".

I clearly have little idea, but there must be some reason, right?

But that's my whole point. Maybe there is no reason.

 

[bubbha]

One of the chief differences is that "Netherlands" is grammatically plural, unlike England, New Zealand, Thailand, etc. Therefore, the addition of "the" before "Netherlands" is natural.

 

[teechar]

Why would the plural necessitate the use of the definite article?

 

[Tdol]

There's also Congo or the Congo. There, Congo seems to refer to the heavily forested region so associated with that county, so again the normal rules apply.

And just to add to the mix here, there are two countries with Congo in the name: the Democratic Republic of Congo and the Republic of Congo. And if you're ever in a pub quiz and asked which is the shortest international flight in the world, it is the one connecting Kinshasa and Brazzaville, which takes less time than a cup of coffee.

 

[Tarheel]

Two countries with Congo in the name. It's almost as if they are trying to confuse people. We geography buffs were happier when one was Congo and the other was Zaire.

 

[Tdol]

In some international circles, they say Congo DRC, adding some redundancy.

The people who lived in Mobutu's Zaire may have less affection for the name.