Jane told Mary about the news even though Mary is ...

[Grumpina]

All the examples of participial phrases I’ve found are of a simple sentence. So I’m wondering which subject the participial phrase modifies when it comes to compound and complex sentence?

1. Jane told Mary about the news even though Mary is the last person who should be informed about it, wanting to update everyone.

Does this sound weird? To me, this suggests that it’s “Mary” who wants to update everyone, but in this context, it should’ve been Jane.

Therefore, it should have been written “Jane told Mary about the news, wanting to update everyone, even though Mary is the last person who should be informed about it.”

I know that in this case, it’s best to write “Wanting to update everyone, Jane told Mary about the news even though…” However, I’m wondering if placing the participial phrase after “the news” in front of the conjunction works too.

Another question.


Also, another question:

I will speak to her when she is ready to listen to me, not wanting to upset her.

Is this correct? For this one, I’m not quite sure. In this case, does “not wanting to upset her” modify “I” or “she”? According to context, it should modify “I”, but does the placement after a relative clause “when she…” make it modify “she” instead?

Basically, if you have

SUBJECT 1 + finite verb + … + relative pronoun + SUBJECT 2 * finite verb + … + , participial phrase

does this participial phrase modify SUBJECT 1 or 2? If it modifies SUBJECT 1, what can I do to make it modify SUBJECT 2. For example, I will speak to when she is willing to listen, not leaving in the middle of the conversation like last time. Does this work?

Thank you very much!

 

[jutfrank]

1. Jane told Mary about the news even though Mary is the last person who should be informed about it, wanting to update everyone.

Does this sound weird?

Yes, and partly as you suspect because the -ing clause is too far removed from the original subject, 'Jane'. Did you write this sentence yourself?

Therefore, it should have been written “Jane told Mary about the news, wanting to update everyone, even though Mary is the last person who should be informed about it.”

Yes, that's a great improvement, but change is to was to make the sentence sound like a narrative. These -ing clauses are used in literary style, not in daily operational life.

I know that in this case, it’s best to write “Wanting to update everyone, Jane told Mary about the news even though…”

That position is fine too.

Put a comma after news.

I will speak to her when she is ready to listen to me, not wanting to upset her.

Is this correct?

No, that's no good. Don't use -ing clauses when the subject is 'I'. My advice is to use them for narrative sentences only.

For this one, I’m not quite sure. In this case, does “not wanting to upset her” modify “I” or “she”?

"I", obviously. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

According to context, it should modify “I”, but does the placement after a relative clause “when she…” make it modify “she” instead?

No.

Forget about this sentence. It's not a narrative sentence so don't try to use an -ing clause.

Basically, if you have

SUBJECT 1 + finite verb + … + relative pronoun + SUBJECT 2 * finite verb + … + , participial phrase

does this participial phrase modify SUBJECT 1 or 2? If it modifies SUBJECT 1, what can I do to make it modify SUBJECT 2.

It depends on the meaning of the sentence, on what makes most sense. Meaning doesn't come exclusively from word order.

For example, I will speak to when she is willing to listen, not leaving in the middle of the conversation like last time. Does this work?

No. That's not a narrative sentence, either. It's spoken language (an expression of intention), not written language, so you shouldn't use an -ing clause. You mean this:

I'll speak to her when she's willing to listen, and not leave in the middle of the conversation like last time.

If you want to explore how the position of -ing clauses affects meaning, give us some narrative sentences to work with. Imagine the sentences are part of a story and not something that someone would say in daily life.

 

[Grumpina]

Yes, and partly as you suspect because the -ing clause is too far removed from the original subject, 'Jane'. Did you write this sentence yourself?

Yes. I was trying to come up with a sentence that best allows me to ask my question regarding which of the two subjects the participial phrase modifies.

Yes, that's a great improvement, but change is to was to make the sentence sound like a narrative. These -ing clauses are used in literary style, not in daily operational life.

No, that's no good. Don't use -ing clauses when the subject is 'I'. My advice is to use them for narrative sentences only.

Oh, I wasn’t aware of this. Thank you very much! What about if I write a story or a novel in a first person point of view? Not in a conversation but simply narrating what’s going on—the pronoun is “I,” of course. In this case, is it still awkward to use -ing clauses. For instance, I take out my gun, trying not to let anyone see. Would this work?

Put a comma after news.

Thank you, but I’m genuinely confused now. I always thought that you don’t need a comma if a subordinate clause follows a main clause. Here:

Please look at the example sentence
(https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/although-or-though)

It depends on the meaning of the sentence, on what makes most sense. Meaning doesn't come exclusively from word order.

Thank you very much! I’ll keep this in mind.

 

[Tarheel]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think @jutfrank's advice is confusing at all.

 

[Tarheel]

It would be nice if you could limit the number of your questions. In an everyday conversation we ask a question then wait for the answer. Then if we have another question we ask it. (Jutfrank is smarter than most of us. )

 

[jutfrank]

What about if I write a story or a novel in a first person point of view? Not in a conversation but simply narrating what’s going on—the pronoun is “I,” of course. In this case, is it still awkward to use -ing clauses. For instance, I take out my gun, trying not to let anyone see. Would this work?

Yes, as a narrative sentence, that would be fine.

I always thought that you don’t need a comma if a subordinate clause follows a main clause.

The way that you've structured that sentence, as well as its length, means it benefits greatly from being broken up with the comma I suggested. Try saying the sentence both ways aloud to yourself (with and without the comma) and see if you can hear the difference.

The main point of a comma is to break up a sentence in order for it to be read more easily.

 

[Grumpina]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think @jutfrank's advice is confusing at all.

Not about the participial phrases. He explained it very well!

 

[Grumpina]

Yes, as a narrative sentence, that would be fine.

Thank you so much!

Yes, as a narrative sentence, that would be fine.

The way that you've structured that sentence, as well as its length, means it benefits greatly from being broken up with the comma I suggested. Try saying the sentence both ways aloud to yourself (with and without the comma) and see if you can hear the difference.

The main point of a comma is to break up a sentence in order for it to be read more easily.

Yeah, I agree. Thank you.