[Grammar] It has rained since morning.

[englishhobby]

Is the following sentence natural? (It should be used with the present perfect continuous. Can the present perfect be used here just as well?)
It has rained (instead of "has been raining") since morning. I wonder when it will stop.

 

[emsr2d2]

If it's still raining now, you need the continuous: It's been raining since this morning. I wonder when it will stop.
If it's not raining now, you can use the present perfect: It has rained [at some point] [since] this morning.

Of course, with the second, you can't follow it with "I wonder when it will stop" because it has already stopped.

 

[jutfrank]

It seems very likely you mean it It has been raining since this morning, in which case the answer is no.

 

[Tdol]

It should be used with the present perfect continuous.

So why not follow this?

 

[englishhobby]

So why not follow this?

With some verbs (e. g. to live, to work) both tenses are possible with almost no difference in meaning. I thought "to rain" could belong to this group of verbs as well. Now I see that it couldn't be used in the same way as "to live" or "to work" (I've been living here since I was born (I am still living here...) = I've lived here since I was born (I am still living here...))

 

[jutfrank]

With some verbs (e. g. to live, to work) both tenses are possible with almost no difference in meaning. I thought "to rain" could belong to this group of verbs as well.

I'm not sure you've understood this properly. Why do you think there's almost no difference in meaning with live and work? What exactly do you think defines this group that you're thinking of?

 

[Tdol]

Meaning matters:

I've smoked for twenty years. (Habit)

I've been smoking for twenty years. (Habit, but maybe want to stop)

I've been smoking this cigar for an hour. (Current situation)

Almost no difference is not the same as no difference. (Former smoker)

 

[englishhobby]

I'm not sure you've understood this properly. Why do you think there's almost no difference in meaning with live and work? What exactly do you think defines this group that you're thinking of?

1) “I've lived in this city my whole life, and I've never liked cold weather.
2) “I've been living in this city my whole life, and I've never liked cold weather.

Is there a big difference in meaning?

 

[Tdol]

A difference of attitude

 

[englishhobby]

Meaning matters:

I've smoked for twenty years. (Habit)

I've been smoking for twenty years. (Habit, but maybe want to stop)

I've been smoking this cigar for an hour. (Current situation)

Almost no difference is not the same as no difference. (Former smoker)

Can you comment the following sentences in a similar way?

1) I've lived here for twenty years.
2) I've been living here for twenty years.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

1) “I've lived in this city my whole life, and I've never liked cold weather.
2) “I've been living in this city my whole life, and I've never liked cold weather.

Is there a big difference in meaning?

Those two sentences amount to the same thing.

 

[englishhobby]

A difference of attitude

I can't feel any difference. Perhaps sentence 2 is more emphatic?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Is the following sentence natural? (It should be used with the present perfect continuous. Can the present perfect be used here just as well?)
It has rained (instead of "has been raining") since morning. I wonder when it will stop.

The simple answers:

1. It's been raining since morning is natural.

2. It has rained since morning is not natural.

3. They're both grammatical and state the same fact.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I can't feel any difference. Perhaps sentence 2 is more emphatic?

I can't answer that, but I like the way you phrased it.

 

[englishhobby]

I'm not sure you've understood this properly. Why do you think there's almost no difference in meaning with live and work? What exactly do you think defines this group that you're thinking of?

I didn't contrast live and work. I looked at them as verbs that have a certain "duration" on their own. Usually people live and work for quite a long time (there are exceptions, of course). So in grammar books they sometimes write that there are a few verbs that can be used both in the present perfect and the present perfect progressive with little or no difference in meaning (because of this "inner duration" - that is how I understood it).
1) I've lived in this city my whole life.
2) I've worked for this company since 2003.
3) I've been living in this city my whole life.
4) I've been working for this company since 2003.

Aren't sentences 1 and 3 and sentences 2 and 4 interchangeable in different contexts? If not, what are the "shades of meaning" that make them different?

 

[jutfrank]

1) “I've lived in this city my whole life, and I've never liked cold weather.
2) “I've been living in this city my whole life, and I've never liked cold weather.

Is there a big difference in meaning?

Don't worry about the size of the difference. Think about what the difference is.

The difference between them is aspect. The first uses present perfect simple and the second uses present perfect continuous. That means that the second has an 'extra' meaning (or emphasis) that the first doesn't have.

This is not a great example pair, by the way, since the two clauses don't cohere very usefully.

 

[englishhobby]

Don't worry about the size of the difference. Think about what the difference is.

So what is the difference?

 

[englishhobby]

It would be great to have some context that would demonstrate the difference between the following sentences:
1) I've lived in this city my whole life.
2) I've been living in this city my whole life.

 

[jutfrank]

So what is the difference?

The difference is the aspect. That means the way that the speaker conceives of the events happening in time is different.

Put very simply, the perfective aspect sees the action/event as complete and the progressive aspect sees the action/event as incomplete.

 

[IlyaTretyakov]

If it's still raining now, you need the continuous: It's been raining since this morning. I wonder when it will stop.
If it's not raining now, you can use the present perfect: It has rained [at some point] [since] this morning.

Of course, with the second, you can't follow it with "I wonder when it will stop" because it has already stopped.

This is what I found in "Grammar in Use Raymond Murphy"
It’s rained every day since I arrived.
Do you still think that in this example it's not raining?