[Grammar] ... he had left the squire to look after the captain ...

[kadioguy]

[In the novel Treasure Island, originally by R. Louis Stevenson, retold by Rjhon Escott, from Oxford Bookworms Library]

We walked down the hill to the boats and, as we did so, the doctor told Silver and me his story. But it was really Ben's story from beginning to end.

Ben, in his lonely walks around the island, had found the skeleton and found the treasure. He had carried the gold on his back in many journeys, and had taken it to a cave on the northeast corner of the island, two months before the Hispaniola arrived. Ben had told the doctor this, and the next morning the doctor gave Silver the map—which was now useless—and gave him the food at the stockade, because there was plenty in Ben Gunn's cave. That morning, when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had left the squire to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.
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Why is the past perfect used in the blue text? That looks no sense to me. Or does it mean this:

... when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had the squire left to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us. [The pattern is have someone left.]

What do you think?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

[In the novel Treasure Island, originally by R. Louis Stevenson, retold by Rjhon Escott, from Oxford Bookworms Library]

We walked down the hill to the boats and, as we did so, the doctor told Silver and me his story. But it was really Ben's story from beginning to end.

Ben, in his lonely walks around the island, had found the skeleton and found the treasure. He had carried the gold on his back in many journeys, and had taken it to a cave on the northeast corner of the island, two months before the Hispaniola arrived. Ben had told the doctor this, and the next morning the doctor gave Silver the map—which was now useless—and gave him the food at the stockade, because there was plenty in Ben Gunn's cave. That morning, when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had left the squire to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.
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Why is the past perfect used in the blue text? That makes no sense to me.

The context is not clear. But in the first sentence, it says that Ben had found the skeleton. That means that this entire passage is probably a recollection looking back from a point in the story.

Or does it mean this?:

... when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had the squire left to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us. [The pattern is have someone left.]

No. Definitely not.

What do you think?

That's what I think.

 

[jutfrank]

Ben, in his lonely walks around the island, had found the skeleton and found the treasure. He had carried the gold on his back in many journeys, and had taken it to a cave on the northeast corner of the island, two months before the Hispaniola arrived. Ben had told the doctor this, and the next morning the doctor gave Silver the map—which was now useless—and gave him the food at the stockade, because there was plenty in Ben Gunn's cave. That morning, when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had left the squire to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.

Why are you not asking about all of these uses of the past perfect? Why just the last one?

 

[kadioguy]

That morning, when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had left the squire to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.

I mean, why does the tense of the red text (in the past simple) not correspond with that of the blue text (in the past perfect)? :-?

[Cross-posted with jutfrank]

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I mean, why does the tense of the red text (in the past simple) not correspond with that of the blue text (in the past perfect)? :-?

[Cross-posted with jutfrank]

Oh. Good question. I don't know, either.

You might try reading the original version. It's better writing.

 

[kadioguy]

That morning, when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had left the squire to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.
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a. when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure

b. he had left the squire to look after the captain

c. then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.

Does that mean that (b) happens first, then (a), then (c)?

 

[GoesStation]

The writing in this book is careless. I wouldn't use it as a model for usage.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

That morning, when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had left the squire to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.
----
a. when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure

b. he had left the squire to look after the captain

c. then taken Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.

That is, he had done this, then that.

Does that mean that (b) happens first, then (a), then (c)?

Yes.

This is a sloppy version. Again, you'd be in much abler hands reading Stevenson.

 

[5jj]

Here's the Escott version:

We walked down the hill to the boats and, as we did so, the doctor told Silver and me his story. But it was really Ben's story from beginning to end.

Ben, in his lonely walks around the island, had found the skeleton and found the treasure. He had carried the gold on his back in many journeys, and had taken it to a cave on the northeast corner of the island, two months before the Hispaniola arrived. Ben had told the doctor this, and the next morning the doctor gave Silver the map—which was now useless—and gave him the food at the stockade, because there was plenty in Ben Gunn's cave. That morning, when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had left the squire to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.


And here's the original:

Ben, in his long, lonely wanderings about the island, had found the skeleton—it was he that had rifled it; he had found the treasure; he had dug it up (it was the haft of his pick-axe that lay broken in the excavation); he had carried it on his back, in many weary journeys, from the foot of the tall pine to a cave he had on the two-pointed hill at the north-east angle of the island, and there it had lain stored in safety since two months before the arrival of the Hispaniola.
When the doctor had wormed this secret from him on the afternoon of the attack, and when next morning he saw the anchorage deserted, he had gone to Silver, given him the chart, which was now useless—given him the stores, for Ben Gunn’s cave was well supplied with goats’ meat salted by himself—given anything and everything to get a chance of moving in safety from the stockade to the two-pointed hill, there to be clear of malaria and keep a guard upon the money.
“As for you, Jim,” he said, “it went against my heart, but I did what I thought best for those who had stood by their duty; and if you were not one of these, whose fault was it?”
That morning, finding that I was to be involved in the horrid disappointment he had prepared for the mutineers, he had run all the way to the cave, and leaving the squire to guard the captain, had taken Gray and the maroon and started, making the diagonal across the island to be at hand beside the pine.

 

[kadioguy]

(The original version, 1911)

That morning, finding that I was to be involved in the horrid disappointment he had prepared for the mutineers, he had run all the way to the cave, and, leaving the squire to guard the captain, had taken Gray and the maroon, and started, making the diagonal across the island, to be at hand beside the pine.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Treasure_Island_(1911)/Part_Six
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Why is the red text in the past simple (rather than the past perfect)?

 

[kadioguy]

That morning, when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had left the squire to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.
----
a. when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure

b. he had left the squire to look after the captain

c. then taken Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.

Does that mean that (b) happens first, then (c), then (a)?

A modified version of posts #8 and #6.

 

[GoesStation]

Forget about this text and move on to something that's less carelessly written. It misuses tenses.

 

[kadioguy]

Forget about this text and move on to something that's less carelessly written. It misuses tenses.

Now I know why the Escott's version wrote it that way, because the original did it the same way! :shock:

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

(The original version, 1911)

That morning, finding that I was to be involved in the horrid disappointment he had prepared for the mutineers, he had run all the way to the cave, and, leaving the squire to guard the captain, had taken Gray and the maroon, and started, making the diagonal across the island, to be at hand beside the pine.

Aha! Stevenson agrees with me. He used had taken, too.

For the third time: Read his. It's more fun, and it won't be full of mistakes.

 

[GoesStation]

Now I know why [STRIKE]the[/STRIKE] Escott [STRIKE]'s version[/STRIKE] wrote it that way, because the original did it the same way! :shock:

Read them more carefully and I think you'll find that you're mistaken.

 

[kadioguy]

That morning, when the doctor saw I had to go with the pirates to find the treasure, he had left the squire to look after the captain, then took Gray and Ben Gunn with him to be ready to help us.

(The original version, 1911)
That morning, finding that I was to be involved in the horrid disappointment he had prepared for the mutineers, he had run all the way to the cave, and, leaving the squire to guard the captain, had taken Gray and the maroon, and started, making the diagonal across the island, to be at hand beside the pine.

I think that the red text of both versions is in the same style to some extent, isn't it?

 

[GoesStation]

I think that the red text of both versions is in the same style to some extent, isn't it?

Not quite. "Started" is a past participle, not a past simple.

 

[kadioguy]

Not quite. "Started" is a past participle, not a past simple.

Do you think that the original text means "... he had run all the way to the cave, and, leaving the squire to guard the captain, had taken Gray and the maroon, and (had) started ..."?

If so, I think that Escott made a mistake, which is that started, in the original version, can be seen as a past participle, while took, in his retold version, can't.

Is that right?