Gerund? or Present Participle?

[giddyman]

Hi, teachers.

Please read the following sentence. Is "being" a gerund or a present participle? Thank you.

Presumably four million seals could not compete with commercial fisherman for the same species without the fact being known.

 

[Matthew Wai]

The -ing form of a verb used after a noun must be a present participle. That's what MikeNewYork told me before.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Speaking as a learner, making the distinction can sometimes help me better understand grammar and constructions.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I think this is a wise decision - I see little benefit from arguing the distinction.

As you already know, I disagree with this. This is like a "grammarian" stating that there is no reason to differentiate a noun from a modifier. Absurd!

 

[MikeNewYork]

I agree with Matthew's take on this. Learning parts of speech is important.

 

[MikeNewYork]

When you say that there is no reason to differentiate a gerund from a participle, that is what you are saying. And you know that.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Read my posts. It will become clear to you.

 

[Matthew Wai]

I think the point is as follows.

Stating that there is no reason to differentiate a gerund from a participle is tantamount to stating that there is no reason to differentiate a noun from a modifier, because a gerund and a participle are a noun and a modifier respectively.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I think the point is as follows.

Stating that there is no reason to differentiate a gerund from a participle is tantamount to stating that there is no reason to differentiate a noun from a modifier, because a gerund and a participle are a noun and a modifier respectively.

You are correct, Matthew. There is no confusion of form and function. The confusion comes from treating all -ing words as if they were they same.

 

[Matthew Wai]

I'll type up and post Part TWO when I get back.

Using a scanner can spare you the trouble of typing, especially if you cannot touch-type.

 

[MikeNewYork]

And there are sound arguments and logic to maintain that distinction.

15. gerund
16. participle
17, 18 infinitive

Not rocket science.

 

[MikeNewYork]

When Quirk suggests that all -ing words are participles, he is suggesting that they are all the same. If they aren't, why call them the same name?

 

[MikeNewYork]

No logic that I know of. It is just the way it is. Quirk's quirky logic is not logic at all.

 

[Matthew Wai]

only one form-label for the different functions of the to + base form of [17] and [18]?

17. A to-infinitive functioning as a noun.
18. A to-infinitive functioning as an adverb.

Are they two form-labels?

 

[MikeNewYork]

Yes. And gerund (noun) is both.

 

[MikeNewYork]

And gerunds are nouns. Nouns can be used in a variety of ways.

Noun is not a form. It is a part of speech.

 

[MikeNewYork]

But there are words that can be nouns, verbs, or adjectives depending on usage. So it is not about the form; it is about the function.

 

[MikeNewYork]

That has been my position all along.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I doubt your interest. We spend a lot of time talking past each other.

 

[MikeNewYork]

We borrowed the word "infinitive" from Latin. In Latin, an infinitive was one word and the name meant an uninflected verb form. We later added the particle "to" as an infinitive marker. It should not be a surprise that infinitives are treated differently from gerunds and participles.