Gerund or present participle?

[cookie201]

Hello!

I wanted to ask about this because I'm a bit confused. I'm having trouble differentiating sentences such as:

a) "I don't like him cooking dinner / I don't like his cooking dinner"

b) "I don't like you calling me lazy / I don't like your calling me lazy"

I've heard both types (with gerunds or present participle) and I'm not sure whether they're right or wrong. I'm not sure about their differences in meaning either. I want to learn when I can use one or the other.

Thanks for reading my message :-D

 

[Rover_KE]

Start by reading the Similar Threads below, cookie.

 

[cookie201]

Start by reading the Similar Threads below, cookie.

Thank you that's exactly what I've been doing. I also looked up gerunds, present participle and example sentences on the internet. So, what I'm guessing is that both pair of sentences, a) and b), are right... although,regarding pair a) I'd prefer the present participle. In these specific cases I think both are fine but maybe the gerund (with the possesive pronoun) is a more formal option?

thanks

 

[emsr2d2]

Thank you​. [STRIKE][/STRIKE] That's exactly what I've been doing. I also looked up gerunds, present participle and example sentences on the internet. So, what I'm guessing is that both pairs of sentences, a) and b), are right. [STRIKE]although[/STRIKE] However, regarding pair a) I'd prefer the present participle. In these specific cases I think both are fine but maybe the gerund (with the possessive pronoun) is a more formal option?

Thanks. [STRIKE][/STRIKE]

Please note my amendments above. We don't end a sentence with an emoticon - you need to use a punctuation mark. If you wish to use emoticons at all, please click on the icon in the toolbar and pick the appropriate one.

What you will find is that "I don't like his cooking dinner" and "I don't like your calling me lazy" are the traditionally grammatically correct versions. However, the majority of BrE speakers I know say "I don't like him cooking dinner" and "I don't like you calling me lazy". There are a few people who will insist that the latter sentences are grammatically incorrect. I disagree. They have become grammatically acceptable over several decades.

 

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello, Cookie:

There are some books that do detect a difference. If (IF!) you believe those books (I do), then here is their explanation:

1. I do not like your calling me lazy.

a. You object to the "calling."
b. It has long been "good" grammar to use the possessive pronoun before the gerund (but, as one moderator reminded us, nowadays most people simply use "you").

2. I do not like you calling me lazy.

a. The emphasis is on "you."

i. That is: How dare YOU call me lazy! YOU are one of the laziest people I know. If someone else had called me lazy, I would not have been so offended! OR: YOU have really hurt my feelings. Yes, I am lazy. But YOU are my mother. A mother should never speak that way to her son.

*****

Here is an example from one book:

3. "I do not approve of that man's coming with Mary." = The coming of the man with Mary is not approved.

4. "I do not approve of that man coming with Mary." = Disapproval of the man is indicated.




James


Source: Homer C. House and Susan Emolyn Harman, Descriptive English Grammar (1950).

P.S. I agree that most people today would not make such a distinction. They would simply use "you." The context of the conversation would show the actual meaning. Personally, however, I am more comfortable using the possessive: I really liked your posting that question.

 

[tzfujimino]

Hello.:-D
[STRIKE]Those '-ing forms' are all gerunds, in my opinion.[/STRIKE]
(I wouldn't worry too much about the distinction, though.)

 

[Matthew Wai]

I think it is not a gerund in 'I don't like you calling me lazy'.

Not a teacher.

 

[tzfujimino]

I think it is not a gerund in 'I don't like you calling me lazy'.

Not a teacher.

Hello, Matthew.:-D
May I ask you why you think so?

 

[Matthew Wai]

Hello, tzfujimino.:-D

I take 'I don't like the artist singing on stage' to mean 'I don't like the artist who is singing on stage' where 'singing' is the present participle instead of a gerund. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Not a teacher.

 

[tzfujimino]

Thank you for your reply, Matthew.:-D I see.
Well, in your case, 'singing' can be both, in my opinion. It is a very interesting example sentence.:-D
In your interpretation, the 'singing on stage' part mostmodifies the noun 'the artist' and therefore it's a present participle. I think it is a valid interpretation. In my interpretation, however, 'singing' is the object of the verb 'like', as in 'I don't like singing on stage'. Hence 'singing' functions as a noun, which means it's a gerund. In my view, a present participle cannot be an object of a verb.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Hello.:-D
Those '-ing forms' are all gerunds, in my opinion.
(I wouldn't worry too much about the distinction, though.)

No, they are not all gerunds. In forms with a possessive adjective + -ing word, the -ing word is a gerund. In forms with objective pronoun + -ing word, the -ing word is a participle. The difference is not trivial. In the first, the word is a noun; in the second the word is a modifier.

 

[tzfujimino]

No, they are not all gerunds. In forms with a possessive adjective + -ing word, the -ing word is a gerund. In forms with objective pronoun + -ing word, the -ing word is a participle. The difference is not trivial. In the first, the word is a noun; in the second the word is a modifier.

Hello, Mike.:-D

In "I don't like him cooking dinner", 'cooking dinner' modifies the pronoun 'him'.
Is that what you are saying?

 

[MikeNewYork]

Yes. "Cooking" cannot be a noun there.

 

[Matthew Wai]

I think 'singing' cannot be a noun in 'the artist singing on stage' either.

Not a teacher.

 

[tzfujimino]

I understand what you (Mike and Matthew) mean.
I think you consider it the same construction as 'hear(see) + somebody/something + present participle'.

OK. Let me ask you a question.

What would be a natural question to 'I don't like him cooking'?
Would it be "Who don't you like cooking?" or "Whose cooking don't you like"?

 

[emsr2d2]

Who don't you like cooking?
I don't like him cooking.

Whose cooking don't you like?
I don't like his cooking.

 

[tzfujimino]

Thank you, emsr2d2.:-D
So, "Who don't you like cooking?" is acceptable. In that case, 'cooking' is definitely a present participle.
I was wrong. I'll take back what I said in my earlier post.
Thank you for correcting me.:-D

 

[Matthew Wai]

In what aspect do you not like him?
I don't like him cooking.

Is it possible?

 

[MikeNewYork]

Yes.

 

[cookie201]

Thank you for your corrections and comments. I greatly appreciate them.