"for conscience' sake

[Anna232]

Is the ce' in "for conscience' sake" pronounced as /iz/? Even though there isn't 's.
The 's is pronounced as /iz/ after sibilants (s, z, sh, and zh ch) but isn't the pronunciation the same in my example too?
The example is from The Oxford Guide to Style by R. M. Ritter.

 

[Tarheel]

I pronounce it more like a "s" than a "z".

 

[5jj]

Is the ce' in "for conscience' sake" pronounced as /iz/? Even though there isn't 's.

ce is almost aways pronounced /s/

The 's is pronounced as /iz/ after sibilants (s, z, sh, and zh ch)

No. The -es is pronounced /ɪz/

but isn't the pronunciation the same in my example too?

No. The apostrophe comes after the s. The e is not pronounced.

 

[Anna232]

ce is almost aways pronounced /s/

No. The -es is pronounced /ɪz/

No. The apostrophe comes after the s. The e is not pronounced.

Is conscience' sake pronounced as /konsaiensiz/?

 

[5jj]

Is conscience' sake pronounced as /konsaiensiz/?

/ˈkɒnʃənsseɪk/

 

[Anna232]

/ˈkɒnʃənsseɪk/

I am lost. If s is a sibilant and c in conscience is pronounced as s, then why isn't the final part pronounced as iz?

 

[BobK]

I am lost. ...

Don't be. Your expectation is correct. If this was written "for conscience's sake", the ending would be /...siz/; but by convention (to avoid all those sibilants) the final "s" is omitted, leaving the phonemic transcription given by @5jj.

 

[Tarheel]

I am lost. If s is a sibilant and c in conscience is pronounced as s, then why isn't the final part pronounced as iz?

I don't understand. How could it be pronounced two different ways?

 

[emsr2d2]

Pronounced in full, it would be "conscience's" (ends with an -iz sound) followed by "sake" as a separate word. Only someone who is (rather unnaturally) enunciating every syllable would say it that way. Native speakers run the words together and, as a result, the sound of the "e" is lost and the two "s"s run together in a single "s" sound. It sounds like "consciensake". The whole "e's" sound is lost, hence the loss of the "iz" sound.

 

[Tarheel]

The sound of the "e"? I pronounce it con-shuns. There is no "e" sound.

 

[emsr2d2]

The sound of the "e"? I pronounce it con-shuns. There is no "e" sound.

In "conscience's" (ie "of conscience") the "e" would be pronounced. The phrase in post #1 is "for conscience' sake", in which the "s" after the apostrophe has been omitted but it's still a possessive apostrophe. In full, as I already explained, that phrase would be "for conscience's sake". However, when written, we often omit the "s" and when spoken, we behave as if the "e's" isn't even there.

 

[Anna232]

I don't understand. How could it be pronounced two different ways?

Can you imagine what we non-native speakers have to go through while learning English?

In "conscience's" (ie "of conscience") the "e" would be pronounced. The phrase in post #1 is "for conscience' sake", in which the "s" after the apostrophe has been omitted but it's still a possessive apostrophe. In full, as I already explained, that phrase would be "for conscience's sake". However, when written, we often omit the "s" and when spoken, we behave as if the "e's" isn't even there.

I thought the 's or s' are pronounced in the same way, aren't they? For example, Dickens' or Dickens's, James's or James', Charles' or Charles's Jesus's and Jesus'. Am I wrong?

 

[Tarheel]

Let's take "James". Spelled "James'" I would pronounce it the same as without the apostrophe. However, spelled "James's" I would pronounce the additional syllable as indicated.

 

[Anna232]

Let's take "James". Spelled "James'" I would pronounce it the same as without the apostrophe. However, spelled "James's" I would pronounce the additional syllable as indicated.

Do you mean the 's in James's is pronounced as /iz/ but James and James' are pronounced in the same way?

 

[Tarheel]

Yes, I guess that's what I mean. With the one (James's) there's a difference in both writing and speech. With the other one (James') the only difference is in writing.