Dear Sirs

[JChevais]

I work in a corporate atmosphere in France and sent a group email to a bunch of people including two women.

The email started with "Dear Sirs". This annoyed one of the women, who happens to be English.

I'm afraid that I may have assimilated too much French, though the email was in English, and can no longer remember what would have been more appropriate. Personally, though I'm told that "Dear Sirs" is considered sexist, I cannot understand why.

Anyway, my point is that I don't know how I should have started the email.

"Dear Sirs and Madams" sounds awful.

"Ladies and Gentlemen" seems trite. It sounds as though I'm announcing a stage show.

What would have been more appropriate?

Many thanks

 

[Clark]

You could start with 'Dear Comrades', if you are not afraid of being taken for a bolshevik. :lol:

 

[Barb_D]

I routinely start my e-mail to multiple recipients with "Hello all," or "Hello everyone,"

I wouldn't have liked getting a "Dear Sirs" e-mail either, if I had been clearly identified as one of the recipients. Why do you think it's correct? Would "Dear Ladies" with two male recipients be correct?

 

[gayanah]

You could start with 'Dear Comrades', if you are not afraid of being taken for a bolshevik. :lol:

Oh it's was so funny to meet the word "bolshevik " here.:up:
BR

 

[Raymott]

I work in a corporate atmosphere in France and sent a group email to a bunch of people including two women.

The email started with "Dear Sirs". This annoyed one of the women, who happens to be English.

I'm afraid that I may have assimilated too much French, though the email was in English, and can no longer remember what would have been more appropriate. Personally, though I'm told that "Dear Sirs" is considered sexist, I cannot understand why.

Anyway, my point is that I don't know how I should have started the email.

"Dear Sirs and Madams" sounds awful.

"Ladies and Gentlemen" seems trite. It sounds as though I'm announcing a stage show.

What would have been more appropriate?

Many thanks

You could try "Dear Colleagues", if you can bring yourself to regard the two women as colleagues.

 

[JChevais]

The people I was addressing were are all very much my superiors.

So no, Dear Colleagues, Comrades are out.

I am a woman. "Dear Sirs" is short and to the point. I don't see what the big deal is. But that may be to my too many years in France and my assimilation to French grammatical rules.

The French rule is that even if there is only one man in a group of women (even if that group of women numbers into the thousands), the group as a whole is referred to with a masculine pronoun (ils).

"Hello everyone" or "Hello all" is not formal enough considering the heirarchical difference between myself and the people I was writing to.

Bother.

 

[Reemy]

I would go for Dear Sirs/Madams,

 

[Raymott]

The people I was addressing were are all very much my superiors.

So no, Dear Colleagues, Comrades are out.

I am a woman. "Dear Sirs" is short and to the point. I don't see what the big deal is. But that may be to my too many years in France and my assimilation to French grammatical rules.

The French rule is that even if there is only one man in a group of women (even if that group of women numbers into the thousands), the group as a whole is referred to with a masculine pronoun (ils).

"Hello everyone" or "Hello all" is not formal enough considering the heirarchical difference between myself and the people I was writing to.

Bother.

Ah, well you've missed the English Feminist Revolution. One can't even use a generic "he" any more in English. Perhaps you could ask the woman who objected what she would suggest?

 

[Barb_D]

Even if French grammar allows 99 women and 1 man to be referred to collectively by the masculine plural, current English culture does not.

Then "Ladies/Gentlemen" is a suitable alternative, and so is "Hello" without any further salutation that addresses sex.

 

[naomimalan]

The French rule is that even if there is only one man in a group of women (even if that group of women numbers into the thousands), the group as a whole is referred to with a masculine pronoun (ils).
Bother.

But we're not talking about the use of the personal pronoun (ils) here; we're talking about how to start a letter addressing people of both sexes. Quite a different matter. In this respect, even in French, the distinction is made:

Mesdames, Messieurs,

In fact, if you start typing "Mesdames ... ", that little automatic thing that tries to tell you how to word beginnings and endings will spring into action and itself propose Mesdames, Messieurs, ... .

 

[JChevais]

Yes. Well. My point is that in English, despite English culture demanding it, does not have anything that suits my needs.

And that is the problematic.

 

[Anglika]

There is nothing similar. In the case of your office communication, where the people are working with you, I would not address them as Dear Sirs anyhow. Whether superior to you or not, Dear Colleagues would be quite acceptable.

 

[jlinger]

There is nothing that requires that an e-mail have a salutation.

Leave it off.

Get to the point.

 

[Reemy]

To whom it may concern could be one option you resort to in starting business letters when the gender is unknown.

 

[Anglika]

To whom it may concern could be one option you resort to in starting business letters when the gender is unknown.

Certainly not on an interoffice email or memo! It is really not necessary to be quite so formal, and this phrase is really best kept to head a general reference letter to unknown potential employers.

 

[b-boyben]

'Dear Sirs' is a formal structure of letter writing and is entirely appropriate as a generalised (non gender specific) salutation when writing to multiple persons who you don't know, such as when writing to a company. Those who might take offense do so because they don't understand this. The closing salutation which formally accompanies it is 'Yours faithfully'.

However, it is not really appropriate when writing to people you do know, such as those within your own company. It is true, unfortunately, that a good, formal alternative is lacking in English and I would therefore advise you, when writing to superiors for example, to attempt to address the letter to a specific person. It doesn't seem to me to be appropriate to write general e-mails upwards anyway. CC others in by all means, but address one person.

If the message is a memo or general e-mail you might use 'Dear all' or 'Dear colleagues'. If you are addressing a department you could write, 'FAO [Sales] Dept.'. FAO meaning For the Attention Of.

English has undergone a de-formalisation of the language in recent years since the advent of e-mail and text messaging. This can make writing in other languages - Italian in my experience - seem absurdly formal. One might say it is English's loss though.

 

[mxreader]

Yes. Well. My point is that in English, despite English culture demanding it, does not have anything that suits my needs.

And that is the problematic.

You should see this as a challenge to your creativity, not a shortcoming of the language.

Here are a couple of ideas to start:

Highly respected colleagues,

To Mr. Bill Gates and highly respected colleagues,

Dear esteemed colleagues,

RECENT MAJOR DEVELOPMENT (no salutation just a subject line)
I am writing to inform you of......

Hope this helps to get your creative juices going.

 

[mmasny]

Those who might take offense do so because they don't understand this.

I don't think it makes any difference why the addressee gets offended. The sender certainly doesn't want that, so they should try to avoid it by all means. E.g. not using controversial forms, whether they like them or not.

 

[Williamyh]

I work in a corporate atmosphere in France and sent a group email to a bunch of people including two women.

The email started with "Dear Sirs". This annoyed one of the women, who happens to be English.

I'm afraid that I may have assimilated too much French, though the email was in English, and can no longer remember what would have been more appropriate. Personally, though I'm told that "Dear Sirs" is considered sexist, I cannot understand why.

Anyway, my point is that I don't know how I should have started the email.

"Dear Sirs and Madams" sounds awful.

"Ladies and Gentlemen" seems trite. It sounds as though I'm announcing a stage show.

What would have been more appropriate?

Many thanks

You should make it simply, just say "Dear all".

 

[kl004535]

Given the following conditions:

"Dear Sirs and Madams" sounds awful.
"Ladies and Gentlemen" seems trite.
"Hello everyone" or "Hello all" is not formal enough .

The people I was addressing were are all very much my superiors.

I think you have already got the answer.

Dear superiors,


superior is unisex.