[Grammar] Columbus has discovered America

[englishhobby]

I know pretty well that if we are talking about someone who is not alive, we can't use the present perfect as it connects the action with the present. But I reremember reading somewhere that you can use the present perfect even to talk about someone who may be dead, but remains very significant for the mankind. For example:

Shakespeare has written around a tenth of the most quotable quotations ever written or spoken in English.
https://metro.co.uk/2017/04/23/its-...not-know-about-the-famous-playwright-6591815/

I needed more examples for my students to illustrate this use of the present perfect and I became curious if it is possible to think of a similar sentence with every famous person who is not with us any more, for example Columbus. Can you think of a similar sentence with Columbus?

 

[Tdol]

Can you think of a similar sentence with Columbus?

I can't- we can talk about writers in the present, but that does not extend to all historical figures.

 

[GoesStation]

I don't find the present perfect very natural there.

It doesn't work for me at all. The linked page is not a good example of well-crafted English.

 

[jutfrank]

I disagree with my esteemed fellow members—I think the Shakespeare sentence is fine.

You can use the present perfect to talk about any historical figure, no matter how long ago they lived, when the idea is to present a present significance to what they did.

For many revisionist historians, Columbus has come to personify the devastation and enslavement of native American peoples.

Christopher Columbus has left a lasting legacy on world civilization.

Christopher Columbus has had a cultural significance beyond his achievements and actions during his lifetime.

Columbus has transformed from unquestioned American hero to problematic figure.

 

[TheParser]

NOT A TEACHER


Hi,

Teacher: This year, 2020, will go down in history because of the current pandemic. But, dear students, remember that many years have gone down in history for their momentous developments. Take the year 1492, for example. Columbus has discovered a new continent. Soon explorers from many European countries will be sending expeditions there in order to claim land and to change forever the lives of the indigenous groups already living there.

 

[Tarheel]

Jutfrank, your sentences in post #5 differ significantly from "Columbus has disccovered America".

(My opinion.)

 

[jutfrank]

Jutfrank, your sentences in post #5 differs significantly from "Columbus has disccovered America".

(My opinion.)

Yes, but they don't differ significantly from the sentence in the original post.

 

[englishhobby]

... they don't differ significantly from the sentence in the original post.

Thank you very much. I was just looking for something of the kind. Your examples helped me understand it better myself. It doesn't have to be 'discovered America'.

 

[jutfrank]

It doesn't have to be 'discovered America'.

Actually, it's very likely that it does.

Can you put that fragment into context? Try to make it clear from the context why you want to use a present tense as opposed to a past tense.

 

[englishhobby]

NOT A TEACHER
Take the year 1492, for example. Columbus has discovered a new continent. Soon explorers from many European countries will be sending expeditions there in order to claim land and to change forever the lives of the indigenous groups already living there.

Thank you very much. I think it is the only way to use my sentence correctly. This thread has helped me to understand the present perfect better. (It is the most difficult tense for us, non-natives.)

 

[englishhobby]

Actually, it's very likely that it does.

Can you put that fragment into context? Try to make it clear from the context why you want to use a present tense as opposed to a past tense.

Columbus has discovered America, so we have more tourist routes for travellers. (I can't think of any other ways to connect the past and the present.)

 

[jutfrank]

The Parser's example is not the only way for the present perfect version of that sentence to make sense.

Here's another way:

Imagine that somebody (person A) goes into cryogenic suspension in the year 1400 and wakes up in the year 2020. He then asks a question to person B about all of the events he slept through.

A: So tell me—has anything interesting happened in the last 620 years?
B: Let me think ... Columbus has discovered a new continent.

This dialogue is a bit silly, isn't it? But it does show that person B has a reason to use the present perfect. This example is similar to how we use the present perfect to refer to events in news reports. The idea is that the past event is more usefully understood as having relevance to the present situation.

 

[jutfrank]

Columbus has discovered America, so we have more tourist routes for travellers.

I think this does work in principle. At least you've shown clearly the reason to use a present tense.

Still, it's better off in the past simple, where the connection between the clauses is just as clear.

 

[jutfrank]

When I was teaching and examining I would have not accepted that.

I'm wondering which exam would have required such a silly dialogue.

 

[Alexey86]

I think this does work in principle. At least you've shown clearly the reason to use a present tense.

No recognised examination would ever require such a silly dialogue. However examination candidates, like some teachers , books, and even some UE members do come up with the strangest things.

To me, these are illustrations of quite different approaches to learning and teaching English: looking into remote and dusty (or silly, if you like) corners of the language to explore its possibilities vs traveling only along well-trodden paths.
I believe the former allows learners to better understand and feel English. The sillier the possible example, the smarter the learner.;-)

 

[emsr2d2]

Imagine that somebody (person A) goes into cryogenic suspension in the year 1400 and wakes up in the year 2020. He then asks a question to person B about all of the events he slept through.

A: So tell me—has anything interesting happened in the last 620 years?
B: Let me think ... Columbus has discovered a new continent.

This dialogue is a bit silly, isn't it? But it does show that person B has a reason to use the present perfect. This example is similar to how we use the present perfect to refer to events in news reports. The idea is that the past event is more usefully understood as having relevance to the present situation.

It is.

When I was teaching and examining I would have not accepted that.

I've never examined but if one of my students used that response, I would tell them that (although not grammatically wrong), "Let me think ... Columbus discovered a new continent ..." is far more natural (BrE). I would explain that they don't have to reflect the tense used in the question in the answer. I would also point out that many BrE speakers would have asked "Did anything interesting happen in the last 600 years?"

 

[Tdol]

We did it tomorrow last year. We'll be doing it yesterday next year.

This sounds like the lead in to a question where they're going to ask what the date is today. ;-)

 

[jutfrank]

some teachers , books, and even some UE members do come up with the strangest things.

You have understood the general point I was making about the principles behind the meaning of the present perfect, right? It doesn't appear so.

 

[jutfrank]

To me, these are illustrations of quite different approaches to learning and teaching English: looking into remote and dusty (or silly, if you like) corners of the language to explore its possibilities vs traveling only along well-trodden paths.
I believe the former allows learners to better understand and feel English. The sillier the possible example, the smarter the learner.;-)

Thank you, Alexey86. I couldn't agree more. My 'silly' example was created with the main purpose of revealing to the original poster something about the principles of meaning.

 

[jutfrank]

I've never examined but if one of my students used that response, I would tell them that (although not grammatically wrong), "Let me think ... Columbus discovered a new continent ..." is far more natural (BrE). I would explain that they don't have to reflect the tense used in the question in the answer. I would also point out that many BrE speakers would have asked "Did anything interesting happen in the last 600 years?"

This is not about naturalness. Is it really not obvious what point I was making?