by / in cancelling

[Boris Tatarenko]

The band disappointed a lot of fans by / in cancelling their concert at the last moment.

Which one is correct?

 

[Rover_KE]

Both of them.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I would use only "by" there.

 

[bigC]

I would use only "by" there.

Does "by" imply the band cancelled the concert intentionally.

 

[Rover_KE]

They both do.

 

[Matthew Wai]

I think there is no such implication in the one below, but I am not a teacher.
'The cancellation of the band's concert at the last moment disappointed a lot of fans.'

 

[MikeNewYork]

"The band's cancellation" suggests otherwise.

 

[Matthew Wai]

I had changed 'The band's cancellation' to 'The cancellation' before you made the above post.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Ah! In your second phrasing, I agree with you.

 

[Tdol]

Does "by" imply the band cancelled the concert intentionally.

It is not easy to cancel something accidentally.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Does "by" imply the band cancelled the concert intentionally.

I wonder whether it was intended to ask 'Does "by" imply the band cancelled the concert intentionally so as to disappoint the fans', but I am not a teacher.

 

[Matthew Wai]

It refers to 'intention' and the OP's sentence refers to 'disappointed a lot of fans', so I wonder whether 'intention' refers to 'disappointed a lot of fans', but I am not a teacher.

 

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


I am sure that I am just one of many members who are glad that the OP posted this question.

I have always been confused by which word to use with a gerund.

I went to Cambridge Dictionaries Online (which I guess can be considered reliable) and found their two examples.

IN (cause) To show when doing one thing is the cause of another thing.

1. "In refusing (= because she refused) to work abroad, she missed an excellent job opportunity."

2. "The government banned tobacco advertising and in doing so ( = because of that) contributed greatly to the nation's health."

I have a sneaking suspicion, however, that some people would feel equally comfortable with "by" in those sentences.

Oh, it's so confusing!

 

[bigC]

It refers to 'intention' and the OP's sentence refers to 'disappointed a lot of fans', so I wonder whether 'intention' refers to 'disappointed a lot of fans', but I am not a teacher.

Yes, "disappointed a lot of fans" is the intention, "cancelling their concert" is the artifice the band used.

If I were the one who wrote this sentence, I would not write in this way unless I have sensed the band had this intention.

I am interested to know if the word "by" has the implication of doing something intentionally in order to achieve another intention, or it is just my misunderstanding.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Do you mean the gerund phrases below could be the means used to achieve the intentions of disappointing/attracting people?

The band disappointed a lot of fans by cancelling their concert.
The band attracted a lot of people by advertising their concert.

Not a teacher.

 

[TheParser]

I am interested to know if the word "by" has the implication of doing something intentionally in order to achieve another intention, or it is just my misunderstanding.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Of course, I cannot answer that question.

But it appears that sometimes either preposition is "correct."

Here's Shakespeare in A Midsummer Night's Dream (II i 215):

"You do impeach [discredit] your modesty too much / To leave the city, and commit yourself / Into the hands of one that loves you not."

According to two legendary brothers, "modern" English would change this to:

"You do impeach your modesty too much by/in leaving and committing yourself into the hands of one that loves you not."



Source: That information comes from H.W. and F.G. Fowler in their 1906 classic The King's English, page 138.

 

[bigC]

Do you mean the gerund phrases below could be the means used to achieve the intentions of disappointing/attracting people?

The band disappointed a lot of fans by cancelling their concert.
The band attracted a lot of people by advertising their concert.

Not a teacher.

NO.

The means used is cancelling their concert.

The gerund phrase is the style of writing adopted by the writer to tell the readers / fans the attitude of the band.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Do you really think that the members of the band wanted to disappoint their fans and decided that cancelling their concert was one way in which they could achieve this?

It is impossible in reality, but is it possible grammatically?

 

[Boris Tatarenko]

It was a simple question. Why did this thread turn into a three-page discussion?

 

[bigC]

If the members of the band wanted/intended to disappoint their fans by cancelling the concert, then we would say:

The band cancelled the concert at the last moment (in order) to disappoint their fans.

It is such an unlikely scenario that it is not worth discussing further.

If one reads from the first post, one will know the original idea of the post is to dicuss does the word "by" implied the band cancelled the concert intentionally, and not in reality, will band members intentionally cancel the concert in order to....., or how to write a sentence so that the readers know the band members intentionally cancel .......

It is purely a discussion of the sentence.