ballot vs bell

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suprunp

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Now some of you may think I'm exaggerating when I say this November's elections are more important than any I can remember in my lifetime. I know politicians say that all the time. I had been guilty of saying it a few times particularly when I was on the ballot.
(Former President Obama unleashes on Trump, GOP - Full speech from Illinois; YouTube)

I'm sure he said 'ballot', but I wonder how close is his 'ballot' to 'bell' in your opinion (and to your ears)?

Thanks.
 
It would not have occurred to me to think he said 'bell'.

Of course, since that would simply be nonsensical (in this context, at least). But if you were to consider his 'ballot' in isolation from the context, would it still be crystal clear that it was 'ballot'?

Thanks.
 
Now some of you may think I'm exaggerating when I say this November's elections are more important than any I can remember in my lifetime. I know politicians say that all the time. I [STRIKE]had[/STRIKE] have been guilty of saying it a few times particularly when I was on the ballot.
(Former President Obama unleashes on Trump, GOP - Full speech from Illinois; YouTube)

I'm sure he said 'ballot', but I wonder how close [STRIKE]is[/STRIKE] his 'ballot' is to 'bell' in your opinion (and to your ears).

Thanks.

He certainly swallows the second syllable. With no other context and none of the surrounding words, I agree that it could sound like "bell".
Note my corrections above.
 
Note my corrections above.
Thank you, took me turning up the volume quite a bit to catch it.

Anent the second correction (the position of 'is') - didn't it sound natural the way it was?

Thanks.
 
Anent the second correction (the position of 'is') - didn't it sound natural the way it was?

No, it was grammatically incorrect since the sentence requires inversion of subject and verb.
 
Your position of "is" would have been correct in a question but starting with "I wonder" means it's a statement, not a question.

How close is his "ballot" to "bell"?
I wonder how close his "ballot" is to "bell".
 
No, it was grammatically incorrect since the sentence requires inversion of subject and verb.

Your position of "is" would have been correct in a question but starting with "I wonder" means it's a statement, not a question.

It may be incorrect, but does it sound natural?

I hear it all the time these days, so, I reckon, I have simply given up resisting it on a conscious/subconscious level.

It has also been found that the use of inverted word order in indirect questions, as in She asked could she go to the movies, is becoming just as much a part of informal spoken general American English as indirect questions without inverted word order, as in She asked if she could go to the movies.
(American English: Dialects and Variation)
 
That doesn't sound natural, either. 'Anent' is rarely used these days, even in Scotland.


It's a legitimate word, as far as OED (and 'many English writers') is concerned:

In respect or reference to, respecting, regarding, concerning, about.
(Common in Scotch law phraseology, and affected by many English writers.)

OED.
 
It's marked as archaic or Sc, or N. Amer. in the concise Oxford Dictionary, Scottish in the online Collins and Macmillan dictionaries. It does not appear in the Online Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary.

On the other hand, it is not marked Archaic or Scottish in either OED or Webster's, or American Heritage Dictionary.

It's a word that few English people are familiar with.

Is it an excuse not to use a word?
(Ostensibly, even 'philosopher's stone' is archaic and hence should be (and was at some point) replaced with 'sorcerer's stone'.)
 
I will happily admit I'd never heard of it until this thread. I actually assumed it was a typo and I almost posted a correction, changing it to "About". I've never seen it used before and, had I found it in a piece of writing, I would have had to look up the definition (even with context).
 
If you are happy for many native speakers not to understand it, then use it.

If a native speaker is unwilling to use a dictionary from time to time or to learn something new, it's their choice; they are free to shrink their vocabulary to a lowest common denominator.
 
Is it an excuse not to use a word?

I must say I wasn't familiar with the word and I'm a vocabulary teacher.

My view is that if almost nobody understands the meaning of a word you use, that's a very good reason not to use it!
 
I don't normally conflate a desire to eschew euphuistic/aureate or archaic language and 'shrinking' vocabulary.
'Anent' is neither aureate, nor archaic, it's simply rare.

That makes three native-speaking teachers of English. Perhaps you, ems and I should take a vocabulary-building course.

Nah. I'll stick with natural language.
I wonder where you'd draw a rather arbitrary line as to what is natural language.

My view is that if almost nobody understands the meaning of a word you use, that's a very good reason not to use it!

Now that everyone who's read this thread understands it, can I use it? :)

On top of that there's a rather profound difference between the written and spoken word: one doesn't have the luxury of pulling out a dictionary in the middle of a conversation, nor would it be terribly useful, hence a subconscious desire to conform to the style of one's interlocutor, to get to a lowest common denominator (i.e. 'shrink' one's vocabulary, as it were). The written word, however, gives one an opportunity to enjoy more intellectual and linguistic leeway, where one can easily introduce an unusual word, expecting one's readers to expand, rather than 'shrink', their vocabulary. Just like Mervyn Peake laid bare the word 'gamboge' to me at one time. I simply took it, never complaining once, forever grateful for being given a chance to add another nugget into my 'uncommonly flowery language' bag. But given the fact that popularity of 'anent' is 'bottom 40% of words' and that of 'gamboge' is 'bottom 20% of words' (according to www.merriam-webster.com) should we berate Mervyn Peake for his 'florid' language at times? I have some sincere misgivings about that.
 
The vocabulary used in asking a question in a language forum [...]

This, of all places, was exactly the reason I chose to use it, in the now vain hope to come across that elusive 1%.
 
Remember that the point of this forum is to help people who are learning English as a foreign language. Our aim is to help them (you, because you are one of them) to use grammatical, natural English - the type of English they will hear every day if they visit an English-speaking country, and to help them make themselves understood. Teaching them words understood by such a small number of people would be doing them a disservice.
 
Anyway, ...

Yes, out of context it does sound a little bit like bell.
 
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