[Vocabulary] Ask about the comparative figures and The figures

[mtrhuynh]

Hello teachers.

I have an issue with writing task 1 as my teacher said that we only use "the figures" the say about the data in comparison language. But another English teacher told me that we cannot use it, she suggested me as in the photo below



I really confuse and don't know which one is right? Should I use "comparative figures" or just "figures"? Please explain to me.
Thanks in advance.

 

[jutfrank]

We need to see at least one example of how you have used the word in a sentence.

 

[emsr2d2]

Hello teachers.

I have an issue with writing task 1 as my teacher said that we only use "the figures" [STRIKE]the say[/STRIKE] to talk about the data in comparison language. But another English teacher told me that we cannot use it; she suggested [STRIKE]me[/STRIKE] that I use [STRIKE]as[/STRIKE] what is shown in the photo below.

View attachment 3438

I am really confused and don't know which one is right? Should I use "comparative figures" or just "figures"? Please explain it to me.

[STRIKE]Thanks in advance.[/STRIKE] Unnecessary.

Please note my corrections above. I don't know what you mean by "comparison language".

 

[Tarheel]

I wouldn't say comparative figures. I'd say comparable figures.

 

[mtrhuynh]

I posted a photos about my question, but it seems no one see it. So I copy the words here:

"Please read my advice on vocabulary for Task 1. "Figure" is regularly misused in these essays.

"Figure" is used to refer to data values only in particular contexts, specifically, business performance reporting, and mostly plural.
"Sales figures for quarter 1 were lower than comparative figures for the previous year."
You can use it here, and a reader will understand what you mean, but it is not very suitable for the context. "

So please tell me that I should use "the figures" or "the comparative figures" in my comparison language, writing task 1.

 

[jutfrank]

I don't quite understand.

"Sales figures for quarter 1 were lower than comparative figures for the previous year."

Do you mean that the sentence above is yours? It seems as if the teacher is giving you an example of how the word figures should be used.

(Note that comparative is the wrong word. It should be comparable, as post #4 points out.)

 

[Tarheel]

I was hoping, mtr, that you were going to post the sentences your teacher commented on.

 

[Alexey86]

Here are excerpts from The Longman Dictionary:

comparable
1 similar to something else in size, number, quality etc, so that you can make a comparison
comparable figures for the same period of time last year

comparative figures/data
comparative figures etc are similar to other figures, so that you can make a comparison
Comparative figures for last year clearly show how sales have declined.

Ludwig Guru gives many examples of both usages:

Ford has put Steeltex tires on 40 percent of its largest, latest pickups and vans and all of the 75,760 Excursions produced so far,
said Michael Vaughn, a Ford spokesman. G.M. did not have comparable figures. (The New York Times)

But with public sector staff facing a pay freeze, growing use of controversial zero-hours contracts, and many employees left with little choice
but to accept fewer hours and real-terms pay cuts, average wages rose at an annual rate of just 0.7% in the year to August.
That increase is the weakest since comparable figures were first complied in 2001. (The Guardian)

The car parts and bicycles business is expected to report a near 10% drop in first-half profits on Thursday to around £42m,
despite a strong performance from its cycling division in the peak seven-week period over the summer.
The division was boosted by weak comparative figures last year, promotional activity, good weather conditions and the Rio Olympics. (The Guardian)

... million, or 76 cents a share, on sales of $2.65 billion, the airline said.The company did not provide comparative figures
for a year ago, before the merger. It was the second full quarter of combined operations. ... (The New York Times)

... of 101.2 billion yen for the nine months ended December at the group level.There are no comparative figures for the year-earlier
nine-month period. Earnings have rebounded as Japanese stock indexes and trading have soared. ... (The New York Times)


This is confusing. Does it mean that they are interchangeable?

 

[mtrhuynh]

But can we only use "the figures" to mention about the data in the writing task 1? My teacher said that "the comparative figures" is totally wrong, no one use it. Can you tell me which one is right?

 

[jutfrank]

This is confusing. Does it mean that they are interchangeable?

Yes, it is. No, it means that some of those writers have made what I think is a poor choice of word.

 

[jutfrank]

But can we only use "the figures" to mention about the data in the writing task 1? My teacher said that "the comparative figures" is totally wrong, no one use it. Can you tell me which one is right?

Maybe she didn't like the word used in that way. Can't you ask her to clarify what she means?

 

[Alexey86]

Here's the difference The Cambridge Dictionary shows:

comparable
similar in size, amount, or quality to something else

The girls are of comparable ages.
Our prices are comparable to/with those in other shops.
The two experiences aren't comparable.

comparative
comparing different things:

She's carrying out a comparative study of health in inner cities and rural areas.

considering the differences between one thing and another:
The research examined the comparative effectiveness of the two medical treatments.

Given that, I don't understand why "comparative" in "Sales figures for quarter 1 were lower than comparative figures for the previous year" is wrong. To me, it's a more logical choice because the figures don't have to be similar. They can easily be very different as well as the effectiveness of the medical treatments in the example above.

 

[jutfrank]

This is how I'd put it:

comparative: relating to the act of comparing

comparable: possible to be compared

Since the figures can be compared, they are comparable, not comparative, but the act of comparing them is a comparative act.

Is that clear?

You might also use the example of an academic field, say, comparative religion. When you study that, what you're doing is comparative, because you're looking at relationships between religions. It's not the religions themselves that are comparative—it's comparing them that is comparative.

What is perplexing you, Alexey, is the fact that comparable has a second, quite distinct sense, meaning something like 'similar'. However, in this case, that is not relevant. The idea is not that the figures have approximately similar values.

 

[Alexey86]

The idea is not that the figures have approximately similar values.

OK, I agree. But it doesn't affect my argument much.

Since the figures can be compared, they are comparable, not comparative, but the act of comparing them is a comparative act.

Since the figures can be compared and are to be compared, they are both comparable and comparative. But I think the act of comparing is more relevant here because "Sales figures for quarter 1 were lower than comparative figures for the previous year" effectively says that figures for different periods were compared. The fact that the figures can be compared is implied and obvious from the context, so it's not the focus of the sentence.

It's not the religions themselves that are comparative—it's comparing them that is comparative.

I totally agree, that's why I choose "comparative": comparative religion, comparative effectiveness are primarily about the act of comparing. "Comparative" implies "comparable" here, because otherwise it wouldn't make any sense. I think "comparative figures" is along the same lines.

 

[jutfrank]

OK, I agree. But it doesn't affect my argument much.

I don't follow your argument.

Since the figures can be compared and are to be compared, they are both comparable and comparative.

I don't follow the logic here. The figures are comparable, not comparative.

But I think the act of comparing is more relevant here because "Sales figures for quarter 1 were lower than comparative figures for the previous year" effectively says that figures for different periods were compared. The fact that the figures can be compared is implied and obvious from the context, so it's not the focus of the sentence.

Yes. You could say that the figures are 'comparatively lower', but you shouldn't say lower comparative figures because the figures are not comparative.

comparative religion, comparative effectiveness are primarily about the act of comparing.

Right.

"Comparative" implies "comparable" here, because otherwise it wouldn't make any sense. I think "comparative figures" is along the same lines.

I don't follow. Maybe you mean to say something like: comparison implies comparability.

It isn't religion (the study of religions) that's comparable—it's the religions (the objects of study) that are comparable. The study of these comparable objects is what is comparative.

 

[Alexey86]

I don't follow. Maybe you mean to say something like: comparison implies comparability.

That's what I mean, yes. Maybe it's not always the case, but it is in the given context, as I see it. If I were to show sales figures for different periods, I would use comparable figures, i.e. I wouldn't, say, compare sales and net income figures. And it's implied and obvious. I see no point for pointing that out. I'd call them comparative because the figures are subjects to comparison. Being a subject to comparison, that's what makes them comparative.

It isn't religion (the study of religions) that's comparable—it's the religions (the objects of study) that are comparable. The study of these comparable objects is what is comparative.

I understand and agree, as I said. It's an example of metonymy: the name of the process (comparative study = comparing as the essence of studying) became part of the object's name (comparative religion) => Comparing (comparable) figures -> comparative figures.

After all, even "The New York Times" and "The Guardian" use it.

 

[jutfrank]

I'd call them comparative because the figures are subjects to comparison. Being a subject to comparison, that's what makes them comparative.

This is where we disagree. We are using different definitions of the word 'comparative'.

It's an example of metonymy: the name of the process (comparative study = comparing as the essence of studying) became part of the object's name (comparative religion) => Comparing (comparable) figures -> comparative figures.

I do understand what you're saying but I don't think it's right. Unlike 'figures' I don't see that religion is the object of comparison. It's religions that are the objects of comparison. There's a difference between 'religion' (uncountable) and 'a religion' or 'religions' (countable). You can't compare a single, uncountable thing. Religion is the object of study, but not the object of comparison. Religions are the objects of comparison, an act which is comparative. To put that in a different way: religion is the study, and religions are the objects of study.

Do you follow what I mean?

After all, even "The New York Times" and "The Guardian" use it.

Right. But wrongly, in my view.

 

[GoesStation]

Being [STRIKE]a[/STRIKE] subject to comparison, that's what makes them comparative.

No. That's the definition of comparable.

 

[Alexey86]

Do you follow what I mean?

I think I do. Comparative religion is a shorter version of comparative religion studies. We have the same thing in Russian, but we combine the last two words into one: comparative religionstudying (literal translation). And comparative religions also doesn't work in Russian. But comparative figures does. And it makes perfect sense because we compare figures without having comparative figure studies (or figurestudying) as well as you don't have it in English.

It's also worth noting that we have exact analogs for comparative and comparable in Russian. So, this discussion is not just about English, but logic and meaning as such.

No. That's the definition of comparable.

We can compare incomparable things. That's why even incomparable things can be comparative.

 

[GoesStation]

We can compare non-comparable things. That's why even non-comparable things can be comparative.

I'm afraid "incomparable" is not the opposite of comparable. It's not my fault. :-?